If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

Foolish Questions Are Used to Try And Get Someone To Stumble In What They Say.
2 Tim 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
1 Cor 1:20-21
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:27
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
Matt 12:10-12
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"-- that they might accuse Him.
11 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?
12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Mark 3:2-4
2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.
3 And He said to the man who had the withered hand, "Step forward."
4 Then He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
Luke 11:53-54
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.
Luke 23:2-4
2 And they began to accuse Him, saying, "We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that He Himself is Christ, a King."
3 Then Pilate asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" He answered him and said, "It is as you say."
4 So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd, "I find no fault in this Man."
Luke 23:14
14 said to them, "You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him;
(NKJ)

xxxxPeople that are full of bitter envy ask many questions so that they might find something to accuse others with. Beware of those who ask the same questions over and over. They also accuse falsely, without any evidence. And all stupid questions are from the devil.


Matt 12:10
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"-- that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Mark 3:2
2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Luke 3:14
14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."
(NKJ)

Luke 11:53-54
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Luke 23:14
14 said to them, "You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him;
(NKJ)

Changing his mind is not the same as changing his purpose.His purpose is stated in Genesis 1:28. I've cited this to you before.
As for his ability to realize his purpose, the quote from Isaiah above simply verifies the literal meaning of God's name. Jehovah (or Yahweh) literally translated means "He who causes to become". I take that as a guarantee that the earth he promised Adam and Eve is a certainty.

However the questions being asked here by me and by Smiley are by no means foolish. They are directly related to the inconsistencies in your stated belief.

God created the earth to be a paradise for man to inhabit to indefinite time. He did not foreknow or otherwise orchestrate the free will rebellion of Adam and Eve. They sinned of their own free will. And they received the consequence God warned them of. They died. No baking, boiling, frying, or broiling.

Jesus' sacrifice, foretold in Genesis 3:15, was to act as a substitute in our behalf for the sin Adam committed in his perfection. The hope for the majority of mankind continues to be as God promised. . . to live here without war or crime or sickness or death. While it is true that a select few will inherit heavenly life, their function will be (as the bride of Christ) to assist in earthly government as "kings and priests". -Revelation 5:10

Man's choice, as it always has been, is between life and death. - Deuteronomy 30:19

Not at all.

It is a great excuse that theists use to rationalize lots of things.

But it really plays no part in what I said.

Well, you asked if God was in charge of the whole production. That seems to imply servitude on our part. Am I right?

I've understood that the god you talk about started everything...and put everything into place.

Am I wrong?

Are there parts of "all that is" that do not originate with this god of yours?

And are you saying there is no "servitude" on your part...to this god?

That is, essentially, the truth.The rebellion in Eden raised issues that have yet to be settled to Jehovah's satisfaction. (We don't keep the clock.) In the time since, the entire earth has been in the hands of the accuser we call Satan. (If this were not true, he could not have offered the world to Jesus in the temptation (Matthew 4:8,9) My "servitude" is voluntary.

Glad we agree on that.



Are you just kidding around here...or have you run out of escape avenues, Neo.

Eden was a creation of the god; Adam was a creation of the god; Eve was a creation of the god; the serpent was a creation of the god; the sky above Eden was a creation of the god; the earth, grass, and trees were all creations of the god; the fruit that Adam and Eve ate was a creation of the god…and most importantly, the set up with the two there where unnecessary temptation could influence them was a creation of the god.

The answer to my question has to be "No...there are no parts that do not originate with the god." All that other stuff was just camouflage.





It is???

Well...maybe it is.

Butut it sounds coerced to me.

Extraordinarily coerced!

It is not about making you stumble in what you say Squeaky, it is about making you think. I dont want you to answer incorrectly, I want you to study and find the correct answer
You have deemed the question of why does God permit suffering to be foolish and ignorant. I have not asked you questions of trickery or with hidden agenda's, I assure you my friend, the answer is in the bible. The problem I suspect you have with the question is that the answers are found in the part of the bible that your denomination disregard as insignificant and/or irrelevant despite the words of Revelation 22:19

Do you know what an oxymoron is?

You said
He did not foreknow or otherwise orchestrate the free will rebellion of Adam and Eve.

You said

Jesus' sacrifice, foretold in Genesis 3:15, was to act as a substitute in our behalf for the sin Adam committed in his perfection. The hope for the majority of mankind

LOL Making me think. I have the revelations of Jesus Christ. There is no greater knowledge on earth. And your trying to teach me something? I know you better than you know yourself. With the help of the Holy Spirit.

I believe I now have a better understanding of what a moron is.
Two events:
The rebellion was not foretold because the rebels acted according to their free will.
The redenption was foretold because God knew our redeemer would act according to his love for his father and his love for mankind as he expressed in Proverbs 8:31.

Cods walloping bull's ****.

Oh!
Well then.
Tell us how to get out of Babylon the Great. - Revelation 18:4

I thought you said you had taken into account the operation of free will. Allow me to re quote these words:The tree was necessary. It represented the choice the first humans had whether or not to accept God's authority.

They didn't have "free will" then, Neo. You know that. They simply did not know the difference between right and wrong...between good and evil.

Selecting to disobey was as "right" and "good" to them as selecting to obey.

Why are you disregarding that?

If it truly represented "the choice the first humans had whether or not to accept God's authority"...why did the god refuse them the knowledge that there was anything WRONG with not accepting it?

You honestly cannot answer that question...because it has no logical answer...which is the reason you duke around it every time it comes up.

God told Jesus just what to say and do.

John 12:48-50
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
50 "And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak."
(NKJ)

Find the Holy Spirit within you and obey Him. Purge all your carnality.
CRUCIFY EMOTIONS & FEELINGS (FLESH)

James 1:21-24
21 Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
John 3:3
3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Luke 9:23-24
23 Then He said to them all, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.
24 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.
John 3:5-7
5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Mark 8:35
35 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
Gal 5:24
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Eph 5:14-17
14 Therefore He says: "Awake, you who sleep, arise from the dead, and Christ will give you light."
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
Gal 6:5-8
5 For each one shall bear his own load.
6 Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches.
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
John 6:63
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
2 Tim 2:4
4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
Matt 5:29-30
29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
30 "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
Matt 22:16
16 And they sent to Him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men.
Rev 2:11
11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."'
Luke 14:33
33 "So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
Matt 19:27-29
27 Then Peter answered and said to Him, "See, we have left all and followed You. Therefore what shall we have?"
28 So Jesus said to them, "Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 "And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name's sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.
Mark 10:30
30 "who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time-- houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions-- and in the age to come, eternal life.
1 Pet 4:19
19 Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.
Heb 12:24-29
24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
25 See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven,
26 whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also heaven."
27 Now this, "Yet once more," indicates the removal of those things that are being shaken, as of things that are made, that the things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear.
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
1 Tim 6:12-14
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
13 I urge you in the sight of God who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus who witnessed the good confession before Pontius Pilate,
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
(NKJ)
xxxTo crucify the flesh(emotions & feelings) is to resist until they leave you. Some you might have to resist for awhile, but others could take a few years.And you do it with the help of the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. The outer person consists of your feelings and emotions(unclean spirits). The inner man consists of affections from your soul. Your inner man is your spirit and soul. Your spirit is the mind of your inner man, your soul is the body of your inner man where your affections are. When you replace the emotions and feelings with the Word of God. Then the Word becomes the controller of the flesh.

James 1:4
4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
(KJV)

1 Tim 6:7-8
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
(NKJ)

Rom 12:1-3
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
(NKJ)

Luke 5:37-39
37 "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined.
38 "But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved.
39 "And no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, 'The old is better.'"
(NKJ)

Luke 17:33
33 "Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
(NKJ)

Matt 10:39
39 "He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
(NKJ)

Matt 16:25
25 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.
(NKJ)

Mark 8:35
35 "For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
(NKJ)

John 12:25
25 "He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
(NKJ)

xxxTo crucify the emotions and feelings will be obedience to the Word. And it will cause much suffering on your part, but you will be suffering wrongfully but doing it willingly. And that is the definition of love. Its a scary thing when you find out the devil has always been in you and deceiving you.

I Jn 4:6-12
6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
(NKJ)


James 4:7-10
7 Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
(NKJ)

1 Pet 5:9-10
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world.
10 But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 15:58
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.
(NKJ)


1 Cor 15:30-31
30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour?
31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NKJ)

James 1:23-24
23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;
24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was.
(NKJ)

2 Cor 4:16-18
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,
18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
(NKJ)

1 Cor 15:30-31
30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour?
31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
(NKJ)


Mark 2:21-22
21 "No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; or else the new piece pulls away from the old, and the tear is made worse.
22 "And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; or else the new wine bursts the wineskins, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But new wine must be put into new wineskins."
(NKJ)

And this knowledge leads you to make statements that lead your audience to believe amongst other things, that

Questions about the condition of man and the purpose of the Earth are from the Devil (did not man create us with an inbuilt sense of Justice? does it not then seem understandable that we would want to understand the need to understand how justice is being exersised in our current situation? (Genesis 1:27, Deuteronomy 32: 4)

God's purpose for the Earth involves us suffering (James 1:13 Deuteronomy 32:4,5)

You yourself do not sin. (Romans 3:23, 5:23. 7:14-18 Isaiah 64:6 1 Timothy 1:15)

Satan is employed by God to carry out his wrath (Ezekiel 28, Isaiah 14)

These inspired expressions are not from my observations in harmony with all scripture, only the scriptures you elect to quote, and while the answers can be found in the bible you do not trust the source, ie the old testament, for by your assertion,

Only half of scripture is beneficial for teaching reproving for setting things straight (2 Timothy 3:16 2 Peter 20,21 Psalms 1:2,3 Proverbs 3)

You use scriptures that infer that we are no longer under the law which is correct, but asserting that it also means that books written prior to 40CE are now obsolete. That part is your input, the mosaic law was written into the old testament, but I can assure you that the old testament is not the mosaic law.
The reason that no scripture refers to old and new testaments is that there was no such thing until the bible was canonised.

If I am wrong in my appraisal of any of your assertions, please let me know, I have no interest in straw men.

I will get back to what you said. But first what is a straw man?