If Jesus died to forgive us, then why is there a Hell?

So far, you have established using scriptures that God allows his righteous ones to suffer wars, rape, famines, disease across the world and all kinds of inhuman suffering in order that our agapé love for him might me made evident.

Is it implausible in your understanding of scripture, that his purpose for the Earth had nothing to do with wrath, suffering and death?

Anyone who attempts to be justified by the law has fallen from grace. And everything up until John the Baptist is the law and the prophets.
You are falling from grace.

Luke 16:16
16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
(NKJ)

Matt 11:12-13
12 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.
13 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
(NKJ)


Gal 5:1-4
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law.
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
(NKJ)

You are an Intellectual idiot. God put Jesus on the cross for an example. And your worried about afew sins on earth? We deserve it Jesus didn't.

1 Pet 2:19-22
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
22 "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth";
(NKJ)

In what way does recognizing God's purpose represent justification by the law? Revelation 21:3, 4 makes it clear that God's purpose has not changed. (Emphasis mine)
God with mankind, not the other way around.
Making it clear that mankind continues to have an earthly hope.

Also note the end of suffering.

God did not put Jesus on the stauros. Jesus' humiliation and suffering was Satan's doing. All that was necessary for Jesus to exchange for Adam was for him to lead a perfect life and die in Adam's stead. See 1 Corinthians 15:45.

Satan is the one who demeaned God's human creation by asserting that no one would serve God for any other than selfish reasons. See Job 2:4

Neo...any god that would set things up this way...

...demeans the word "god."

If there is a GOD...the people thinking the GOD acts the way this pathetic god does...

...demean common sense...and, not incidentally, the GOD.

Well, Jehovah did not "set things up this way". I, for one, am happy he has provided for relief from Satan's rebellion.

When the only evidence you have for what you say is the old testament.

GODS WILL

Matt 18:14
14 "Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
Acts 17:24-25
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
Rom 9:15-16
15 For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion."
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Rom 9:18-21
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?"
20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?"
21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Rom 9:22-23
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Matt 5:7
7 Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Luke 1:50
50 And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."
Heb 10:28-31
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Rom 8:32-34
32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Heb 9:24
24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
II Jn 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.
2 Pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
Heb 10:9-10
9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Rev 4:11
11 "You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and by Your will they exist and were created."
Matt 10:28-29
28 "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29 "Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will.
Matt 5:36-37
36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
37 "But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
(NKJ)
xxxx To many think that "will" is an absolute. Will means desire, which is a strong hope but not an absolute. And we mess up ourselves, not God. He can have a desire to lead us into something good and we can mess it up. And cause Him to change His mind.

Hope
1679 elpizo (el-pid'-zo);

from 1680; to expect or confide:

KJV-- (have, thing) hope (-d) (for), trust.

Will
2307 thelema (thel'-ay-mah);

from the prolonged form of 2309; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination:

KJV-- desire, pleasure, will.

Will
1106 gnome (gno'-may);

from 1097; cognition, i.e. (subjectively) opinion, or (objectively) resolve (counsel, consent, etc.):

KJV-- advice, + agree, judgment, mind, purpose, will.

Satan surprised even God. How is it that mere humans would be held accountable for falling prey to that which God himself fell for?

my friend, please do not think I am trying to misrepresent you here. Rather I ask questions to establish what you understand. I have no interest in straw men.

I understand that as one who has a different exegesis to you, you would consider me an intellectual idiot, or as you kindly explained in another thread, an "unlearned one". my first inclination was to assume disdain, but I will overlook it, for I can perceive your position on the matter.

Please know that I am not "worried about a few sins on Earth". There is a larger matter at hand, namely, that God is being blamed directly by some, indirectly by others, by much of Christianity for the suffering on the Earth. You say Jesus did not deserve to suffer and die, and yet we do. Why would God create mankind to suffer and die? Can you not understand why some may struggle to reconcile this understanding with a "God of Love"?

I asked a question. I did not ask you what you think is behind the question.

And if you are referencing the post in which I pointed out an inconsistency within the text of the Bible to show that I think you or anyone else is unlearned, all that has actually happened is that I pointed out an inconsistency within the text and expressed my feelings about the adults who chose to overlook it.

Sorry Glennn, my post was a response to Squeakybro

God does not require ransoms to be paid in order to spare anyone; that is what terrorists do. And neither does God require the pain, blood, and death of an innocent in order to break the spell of sin; that is what voodoo practitioners do. To hold such ideas about a great being of love and light is the stuff that blasphemy is made of.

I see.

He didn't???

I thought he was responsible for the entire universe...and all in it.

You are very confusing at times, Neo.

Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Heb 4:13
13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
(NKJ)

Did you forget about free will, Frank?

Uhh, Squeaky . . .
Fill in the blank:
. . . . the meek shall inherit the ________.....

Extra credit:
Is that from
A. The Hebrew Scriptures
B. The Greek Scriptures
C. All of the above

Do you know what foolish questions are? Foolish questions are questions that cant be answered with proof. Why God done this or that is nobodies business. Either one believes in God or they don't. If they do they must focus on how can I please God. Not on why God done this or that.
Satan has put a lot of questions out there just to deceive people.
Foolish Questions Are Used to Try And Get Someone To Stumble In What They Say.
2 Tim 2:23
23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.
1 Cor 1:20-21
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 1:27
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
Matt 12:10-12
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"-- that they might accuse Him.
11 Then He said to them, "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out?
12 "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
Mark 3:2-4
2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.
3 And He said to the man who had the withered hand, "Step forward."
4 Then He said to them, "Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they kept silent.
Luke 11:53-54
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.
Luke 23:2-4
2 And they began to accuse Him, saying, "We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to pay taxes to Caesar, saying that He Himself is Christ, a King."
3 Then Pilate asked Him, saying, "Are You the King of the Jews?" He answered him and said, "It is as you say."
4 So Pilate said to the chief priests and the crowd, "I find no fault in this Man."
Luke 23:14
14 said to them, "You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him;
(NKJ)

xxxxPeople that are full of bitter envy ask many questions so that they might find something to accuse others with. Beware of those who ask the same questions over and over. They also accuse falsely, without any evidence. And all stupid questions are from the devil.


Matt 12:10
10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked Him, saying, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"-- that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Mark 3:2
2 So they watched Him closely, whether He would heal him on the Sabbath, so that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Luke 3:14
14 Likewise the soldiers asked him, saying, "And what shall we do?" So he said to them, "Do not intimidate anyone or accuse falsely, and be content with your wages."
(NKJ)

Luke 11:53-54
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine Him about many things,
54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something He might say, that they might accuse Him.
(NKJ)

Luke 23:14
14 said to them, "You have brought this Man to me, as one who misleads the people. And indeed, having examined Him in your presence, I have found no fault in this Man concerning those things of which you accuse Him;
(NKJ)