When should you keep your mouth shut?

Bait and switch?

I guess the fact that this is in philosophy rather than the more usual relationships and marriage puts a different spin on things.

I've seen her saying the same thing throughout, though.

I'm with the others that suggested you carry the baby full term and give it up for adoption. There are so very many women out there who cannot have children and would give your child a wonderful home. Is there any reason why you can't do this?

Any reason?

You're serious, Montana?

She said that she was using birth control and it failed. Abortion is legal. Having a medical procedure to end the pregnancy is itself traumatic, but not anything CLOSE to being pregnant for nine months and giving birth to an actual BABY that is then given away.

There are way too many kids already who need good homes. Someone who wants to adopt can adopt one of them (and bless 'em.)

Soz
I'm very serious! So, you think a life should be ended simply because it would be hard on her to give the child to a loving family?

Are ya kiddin'? Are there reasons? Why, so many that they'd make your head spin, I'm quite sure!!
Just for starters, pregnancy would put a serious crimp in her freedom, don'tcha see?
I mean, those awful pregnant frocks you have to wear, and giving up drinking and... you see where I'm going? C'mon, be serious. It'd make more sense for you to ask if there's any reason she would do something like carry a totally helpless, innocent dependent human being around in my body for 9 months and go through the pain of childbirth. You just must not have been focusing clearly when you asked that, right?
No, the real point is, what would be in all that for her. I mean, isn't that really the only thing of import in these matters?

Sozobe,

Your argument is purely egocentric. It is, in effect, poor me. I understand that she was using birth control - but as the box says 99.9% effective. There must be ramifications for actions. Casual behaviour with life altering devices (such as penises and vaginas) have ramifications. If the intent is only to shirk these responsibilities because of bad timing or bummer for my career - this can not be taken as ethically sound.

There are others to consider - imagine the trauma of finding out you had a child - but it was aborted and you were not told. Imagine what this aborted life could do.

I am not a bleeding heart so I will not give you a bunch of 'this baby could cure cancer' stuff. But unless you can give me another argument besides the egocentricism posted above - I am forced to ask if you are serious.

TTF

I'm pro-choice.

That's what it means. I think that if a young woman is just beginning a career and has no intention of having a baby becomes pregnant due to failure of birth control methods, it's her right to terminate the pregnancy. It's her right, and it's legal.

The question here is not whether she should or shouldn't abort but how she should handle communication with this friend of hers.

That response was to Montana, but can stand as a response to thethinkfactory too.

I, personally, would have a hard time having an abortion. Luckily (and yes luckily, no method is absolutely foolproof), it is not a decision I have ever had to make.

However, I think it is far more inethical for me to lay a guilt trip on someone who has to make that difficult decision and who clearly has no intention of changing her mind, when what she is doing is perfectly legal and within her rights. Minimally ethical, perhaps, but not inethical.

(Again, I'd prefer not to get into the whole abortion debate. Microbiologistgal has asked a very specific question -- let's keep to it.)

If you respect your partner, tell him.

If you have no respect for him, keep silent--and terminate the relationship.

I agree with sozobe.

She has not asked for our moral inclination of pro/con
abortion, she was asking if it would be a good choice to
tell the "father" about the abortion.

Terminating a pregnancy is legal, and thankfully so.

If it were me, I would have the abortion and not tell
him anything. Chances are, the relationship is at a
turning point anyway.

Re: When should you keep your mouth shut?


The question was, I believe, is it ethical to tell him or not - not is it legal to have an abortion.

It was legal prior to the 90's to beat your wife - didn't make it moral.

If it is her right to protect her career - she is simply choosing money and convienience over life.

Besides being legal and her right to choose - what argument do you have that a career is more valuable than a child?

We are on the same side as far as choice goes... so what is left is the argument at hand. Terminate without telling or not. For me the answer is the same for both the termination and the not telling. If you do either, you are not considering the others involved and only considering your convienience.

TTF

Soz
I respect your opinion, but it doesn't mean that mine is wrong!
I think of this life as a human being with a future and snuffing it's lights out for no good reason other than her career doesn't sound like a good reason at all. Hell, it's not like she'd have to raise the child or support the child. She could put the child up for adoption and continue on with her career.

ttf, I think you didn't see my edits.

I agree with Noddy.

Personally, I think it is likely that the relationship will be dealt a mortal blow by this either way. If you don't tell him, I think you'll feel awful and have less and less fun with him. If you do tell him, it will be this huge thing between you and also hard to keep things fun and light.

But I'd recommend telling him either way, respect or no respect, because it's the right thing to do and because otherwise he'll wonder about the cause.

I hope that he is sympathetic to your position.

Montana, I was just rather shocked that you would ask if there was any reason she couldn't complete the pregnancy, give birth, and then give up the baby for adoption. It seems obvious to me that all of that is a rather huge deal. You seem shocked at my shock. So it goes.

Sozobe - I edited too. Thanks for the patience.

I realize that her original question was not should she abort. I just wish she could see the options - that is all. Montana summed it up for me - so I will let it go.

I think this relationship is DOA from the minute you had sex. No friendship with priviliges relationship ever lasts anyway.

But as far as your creation - you need to tell him. I agree with you Sozobe respect or no respect you gotta tell him.

I am sorry for jumping topics - my intent was never to gulit trip you. I just hate the thought of terminating a baby when you don't have to. I think about my little son and get all serious.

Sorry for the thread jump.

TTF

Gracious of you, ttf.

You too Sozobe. Thanks,

TTF

I think the question is insane. I think unless the man is an irresponsible, uncaring pig, of course he should know.

Soz
I know it's a huge deal and I apologize if I made it sound easy, but I've known many women who have had abortions who never stopped regretting it and I've also known women who gave children up for adoption who are happy that their child was raised by loving parents and had a chance to grow up and have a future.
Of course it was hard for them to give up their child, but at least they were happy for that child and they were able to go on with their loves knowing they did the right thing. I've yet to know anyone who had an abortion that didn't regret it for the rest of their lives.
I'm not just thinking about the child here. I'm thinking about her as well.

Now my wife is agreeing with you Montana. We should have you over for dinner some night.

Care to make the trip to Houson?

TTF