When should you keep your mouth shut?

Welcome to A2K microbiologistgal,

I think it's your body and ultimately, your choice. I don't think he has much of a right in deciding whether you keep the baby, since you are the person who'll have to take most of the responsibility for it's upbringing. However, if i was in your situation and i was close to him, I would still tell him. It would potentially effect your relationship if he finds out immediately, in five years or if he never finds out ( because you'll know about it) , so it's probably going to be psychologically healthier for you to have it all out in the open, so that you deal with it. He should have a right to share his opinion with you, even if you don't heed it.

Also, if he has strong feelings against abortion, you are betraying him by not telling him. He doesn't have a right to chose whether you have an abortion, but he has a right to choose whether he continues the relationship. You'll be able to find somebody else who shares your views towards abortion, and who won't be psychologically damaged by going through an operation which they view as murder.

Even if he's just a fuckbuddy and you don't share much of your life with him anyhow, you may as well tell him. I mean, how difficult could it be to find a replacement?

this is a serious topic, at least to me, even though you've discussed it in a casual way, and i'm not at all sure that i'm qualified to give any suggestions. but perhaps someone else will correct me if i write something inappropriate. so, assuming he had no way of knowing you would become pregnant, and there is no chance he will find out that you did become pregnant, i think there's no need for him to know, if your mind is made up not to have a baby. there isn't any way he can force you to, any more than if the case were reversed, being you want a baby but he doesn't, he could force you not to. on the other hand, if you're not 100% certain about not wanting a baby, he ought to be consulted, but i don't see any point in consulting if your mind is made up.

I think you'll have a hard time hiding that you're pregnat unless he is self centered to the border of insanity.



If he has strong feelings against abortion he has betrayed them by risking to impregnate a woman without knowing wether she wanted a child or not. For him to press such a point in such a situation would be cruel and heartless, and entirely manly...

I've had a similar experience a few years ago. My girlfriend at the time became pregnant, and she called me up to let me know she was getting an abortion. She practically told me before she said she was pregnant. Now, I do not think too highly about abortion, but in this case I put my dislikes aside. Otherwise my moral stubbornness would become her burden for the rest of her life. She wouldn't even see it like that. I could never live with myself.

Cyracuz, I think the point is that she plans to do something about it before it's evident...

Sorry you are in that situation, microbiologistgal. It must be very difficult.

I think Odd Socks touches on lots of important points. I think you can present it as sharing information -- this is what you plan to do -- rather than asking your friend's permission. But I think it would be ethically more correct to inform him.

Not to sound like the Church Lady but I don't feel sorry for your position. I assume you knew that fu**ing can lead to pregnancy when you did it. Now you're pregnant. You obviously have no moral problems with abortion and I would bet your buddy doesn't either, so my answer would be to tell him before you do it so at some point down the road if it ever becomes necessary you can use it as leverage on him to guilt him out if it becomes advantageous for you to do so. That's a girl thing.

And I'm not judging you negatively. I've paid for a couple of abortions in my life. You rolls the dice you takes your chances. You're going to have the abortion regardless of his input it sounds like, so tell him. Why not?

There are four scenarios to consider:

1) Both parents want the child
2) Both parents want to abort the child
3) The mother doesn't want the child/Father wants the child
4) The mother wants the child/Father doesn't want the child

No one should be forced into parenting a child, whether father or mother. As long as women have rights to escape parenting a child, men ought to enjoy those same rights or as close to them as the law & physiology can allow.

Certainly, a mother who wants a child cannot be forced to have an abortion. However, a father who does want a child should not be forced into responsibility for the child in any fashion.

See Male Choice for more.

If you plan to abort the child, my opinion is to keep it private relative to the child's father. Of course, I think its wrong but telling him invites the potentiality he'll want you to keep the child. It's better for you to never disclose this to him. Ever.

Having an abortion & telling him does what? In my opinion, it doesn't accomplish one positive thing. Please excuse my bluntness here, but allowing him to "voice his opinion" when you've already decided is BS. If he wants the child you've essentially gave him an opportunity to hear you say, "nyah nyah, you can't save your baby, neener neener!"

If you plan to keep the child, then you have a moral responsibility to tell him. Also, it's practical to tell him for the same reason. Since you have the capacity to force a financial liability on him, it's fair to give him a chance to plan his future accordingly.

Having the child without telling him is evil. Of course, if you know he doesn't want to become a parent of this child, having the child without forcing him to pay for it is super!

Lastly, if you want to go forward with the feeling you're engaging in responsible sex, find out your partner's preferences before having sex with him. Finding out your partner's position on abortion & parenting after the fact is, in a word, lame.

My take:

I am a pro-choice person by default. I think all life should be allowed to exist and all children are wonderful creatures. I love my son, and wonder what the world would be like without him.

However, I am not sure who's choice this would be if it were not the woman's (it certianly is not our governments).

However, ethically speaking, by not allowing him a decision in this matter is not treating him like an autonomous agent and is thus unethical.

Every human, being human, demands the duty of being treated like an autonomous agent whenever possible. By not allowing him to have any say (although the ultimate decision is yours) you are depriving him of being treated like a cognitive agent.

In effect you have made a choice that impacts his life (whether he knows it or not) for him without his consent (let alone informed consent) and the ramifications of this decision could have great impact on his life.

If this decision you are making for two parties were made universal (in other words - if everyone in your decision did this) what impacts would this have on humanity.

Let me show you a scenario to illuminate my point.

You have the abortion and complications arise - you get ill, and have to disclose why you were ill. If this takes place, and he says that he would have taken this baby even if you did not want it (full custody) - you have impacted his life without his conscent. You cannot unring that bell once rung.

To reverse the situation I do not think you would want to have a childs life that you were paritally responsible for being terminated on anothers sole decision. I think if you decide to not tell him, you have not only failed the universibility test, but also the reversibility test.

Lastly, abortion in your case can seem like wishing to take actions and then not wanting to deal with the consequences of those actions. Assulting a person, and not wanting to go to jail. Eating whatever you want and not wanting to get fat. The want to shirk responsibility is a natural one - the reality however conspires against you.

I am not sure as though your intentions have any purity beyond 'this is inconvienient for me'. Love of the sperm donor has nothing to do with love of the child. Inconvienience and bad timing has nothing to do with the facts you have a growing child within you. If you see this decision as binary - have child and keep child - or abort - there is atleast one more option. Adoption.

What is needed for further analysis, personal and external, is your intentions. If your intent is to rid yourself of a being (or soon to be being) because of inconvienence then this needs to be factored in. If your intent is otherwise - then this needs to be factored in. If you do not know your intent but are making life altering decisions based on your lack of analysis - you may have created a situation where three beings (Sperm donor, yourself, and baby) are changed forever without real analysis. I think this has to be unethical.

One last thing. This has nothing to do with judgement, evil, good, or any of that **** the fundi's may lump on you. You have a decision to make - you need to make the right one and no amount of external help or pressure will change that fact.

God Speed.

TTF

p.s. I will adopt that child if it will change your mind. I am very serious. Good luck (if you believe in that sort of thing).

Thanks sozobe, for comments that seem both rational and understanding. I appreciate that. You too odd socks.

I want to clear things up- people keep bashing me for the idea of raising the child and not telling him. I never said anything about that. I am not planning on having the baby, and nowhere in my post did I talk about having it and never saying a word.

To clear the air as well, I have been on birth control for 7 years. Things happen. I don't like suggestions that he doesn't mean anything to me, and I would never hold something like this over someone's head. I do worry about him finding out years from now if I don't tell him. Make sense?

For those of you who think I thought about this lightly that's not true at all. I have no financial support outside of myself, I just moved 1000 miles away from my family last year, and I'm not in a real relationship with this guy. I have spent every waking moment of the past two weeks thinking this through.

I understand that many people don't like abortion. I respect your opinion, but bashing me for that decision has no pertinence to this topic and doesn't help me at all.

PS- thinkfactory, I believe you're pro-life. Not pro-choice.

i didn't think i did any bashing, but your comment made it sound like everyone except sozobe and odd socks bashed. regardless, i talked about this to a woman who's counseled women who have undergone abortion, and she believes strongly that you need support, because it's a traumatic experience both physically and pyschologically, so even if you do not tell your male friend, perhaps you ought to tell someone such as a close friend or relative.

TTF can speak for himself, but it's entirely possible to be pro-choice and yet be ambivalent about the ethics of abortion. an analogy is this: many people consider lying to be unethical, but there's no law against it, except in special circumstances like testifying in court. just because one has misgivings about something doesn't mean one supports the idea of a law prohibiting it. in the case of abortion, if the US unilaterally banned it, wealthy women could just go abroad and have abortions. all that's happened is that poor women would have to bear an extra hardship.

I had thought about this in case it should happen to me. I decided that their are lots of couples out there who want a baby so bad and can not have one, the baby deserves the best you could give it. If you don't want the baby, perhaps think about putting it up for adoption. You don't have any ties to the baby, and you could make the dreams come true for another couple.

I hope this post will sway your opinion of the posts above.

I think you misread the above posts. I know for certain that you have misread my post - or did not finish it. I am - as I said before - pro-choice by default. I believe that the mother is the only person who ultimately has the right to choose. I am not sure how that can lead you to believe that I am pro-life.

My posts and the ones above spoke about getting an abortion and not telling the sperm donor. I never spoke about you raising the child. I don't think anyone bashed you on this thread at all. After re-reading the posts only Omar mentioned raising your child - but mostly discussed your abortion plans.

It sounds to me that you have made a decision, plan to carry that decision out, and wish to have support for that decision. However, your thread starter was posed in the form of a question. So - I support your right to choose, but, in my estimation your decision not to include the father of the child in the decision is an unethical one. Furthermore, in my estimation, your decision to have an abortion, based on the motivations you mentioned, is unethical.

However, my estimation is incomplete and half baked at best. I do not know your motivations. You have stated your plans but not why - other than that you do not love your friend (with priviliges). As I stated before, the love of that man and love of your child are completely seperate things.

I am not judging you - I am merely raising the conundrum in my mind and coming to a conclusion that I think is right.

I am still very serious that there are other options out there for you. My wife and I would take that baby in a heartbeat.

If that allows you to write off what I say as pro-life, hard headed, bible thumping, whatever - then so be it. But, there is no animosity nor judgment in my posts, only the hope that whatever decision you make it will be well thought out.

TTF

Why tell him? So what if he cares about you, and so what if he might care about creating a child? Our society proves everyday that men are just minor players in that scenario, anyway. Hell, you don't even need a man to make a baby. It's all about you, and what you can live with, right?

Snood - Can you take that tac and still treat others as autonomous agents?

Are you not treating humans as means - or not considering them at all when making a call like that?

This decision impacts more than the mother. It impacts the father and the potential child. Can you at all say that you have considered there agency and make a call like that?

TTF

Please immediately turn in your Lone Star State official ten gallon hat and get your pansy ass to Massachusetts. We like our little women obedient around here buddy.

<he don't know me very well, do he?>

Thinkfactory - sarcasm.

Damn it Snood! My bad! You got me. I AM too serious at times.

Good one.

TTF

Before I posted, I pointed out (in real life), "do you think she really gives a **** about what anyone has to say?" This thread is a great example how personal dynamics are used to diguise the age old bait & switch. Well, microbiologistgal, you sure pulled one over on us--but your little *game* proved yet again, why the liberal position on abortion & father's resproductive rights is *ahem* unattractive.

If you really wanted to be coddled, you should have said so; I would never have given you my most excellent perspective on your circumstance. Have a good life & I hope you begin making more responsible choices. Especially when they involve someone else's future.