How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I am sure a wall will stop drugs from entering the US and somehow be able to stop planes and cargo ships and even special build submarines of all things bringing drugs into the nation.

As far as people crossing the border more Mexicans are leaving the US and returning home then entering the US to work at such places as President Trump golf courses since 2008.

Yes Once more a wall will do the trick when it come to drugs at least.

I think you have to take everything with a grain of salt when it comes to drug-trafficking information. You could read an article claiming that a shipment of drugs was intercepted at a port of entry or on the open sea or wherever and that interception could have been planned by the organizers as a decoy for other shipments via other channels. They can sacrifice all the product they want to get the stuff they need to get to the customers who pay handsomely for it, i.e. because it doesn't take very much of the stuff to satisfy the customer and/or achieve the desired business objective.

You also don't know to what extent people working within the government are moles who sought out their jobs to have an insider position to help in the trafficking process. That is why, I think, Trump is so adamant about the wall; i.e. because he thinks a physical barrier can prevent dirty cops from picking up migrants and then taking their shipment from them while they are in custody and giving it to someone else who carries it to the next courier.

Believe me I hate the idea of the wall, but what are we supposed to do, give up on the war on drugs? If we gave up, what would the result be? More and more people would get seduced into addiction by dealers who would press them for as much money and cooperation as possible. You would have networks of people collaborating in subtle ways to extort victims, using drug-slaves and prostitutes and every other form of manipulation to get anyone with money into a position where they could be blackmailed, extorted, or otherwise deprived of their money.

Is this really the kind of world we want to have? Or would it be better to have a world of respect for liberty and property rights where there may be social-economic inequalities but we could work toward systems that allow the poor to feed and clothe and house themselves so that they don't have to depend on drug/human trafficking networks and organized crime to provide them with an economic alternative to the regular economy that is beyond them for whatever reason?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

Yes, we are supposed to give up on the war on drugs. It is a stupid war that we will never win... not with a wall, not with x-ray equipment not with laser AI robots.

We have been fighting this war since the 1970s, and we have made zero progress after spending hundreds of billions of dollars and putting tens of millions of people in jail.

Yes, we should end this idiotic war on drugs. But that is a topic for another thread.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Yes, we are supposed to give up on the war on drugs. It is a stupid war that we will never win... not with a wall, not with x-ray equipment not with laser AI robots.

We have been fighting this war since the 1970s, and we have made zero progress after spending hundreds of billions of dollars and putting tens of millions of people in jail.

Yes, we should end this idiotic war on drugs. But that is a topic for another thread.

We been fighting this so call war long before the 1970s and if in the war history one drug user could not find his drug I would be amazed indeed. Hell they are even flying drugs into Federal and state prisons using drone.

Yes whole submarines are being build in the jungles of South America an one successful trip would paid for building ten such ships.

Then we have planes and fast boats and cargo ships with hidden compartments and on an on.

footnote I once visit the Keys West airport pilot lounge and offer anyone there $$$ if they would take myself an my girlfriend for a short ride around the keys.

Found that not only was the plane in question engine soap up to the point you could almost hang the plane in the air by it prop but that there was two sets of top of the line communication and navigation electronic where both sets likely cost roughly the same as the plane.

Now that plane could had been used for only legal tasks but I frankly do not think so.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

If only federal prisons had walls.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

In the 1970s I was called for federal jury duty and was question concerning serving on a marijuana case.

I almost gave the poor judge a heart attack by stating that I could not serve on such a jury as I did not believe in the marijuana laws and nor would convict anyone under them.

The only thing I regret was that I just did not keep silent and just hung the jury at the worst.

In other word exercising my rights of jury nullification.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Yes, we are supposed to give up on the war on drugs. It is a stupid war that we will never win... not with a wall, not with x-ray equipment not with laser AI robots.

We have been fighting this war since the 1970s, and we have made zero progress after spending hundreds of billions of dollars and putting tens of millions of people in jail.

Yes, we should end this idiotic war on drugs. But that is a topic for another thread.

How do you know zero progress has been made? How do you know what the world would be like right now if nothing had ever been done to fight drugs and the organized crime, abuse, and exploitation that they are part of?

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I almost gave the poor judge a heart attack by stating that I could not serve on such a jury as I did not believe in the marijuana laws and nor would convict anyone under them.

If you think marijuana doesn't do harm, talk with people who dropped out of school because they could make more money dealing, trafficking, growing, etc. etc.

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@livinglava,

the rise in the rate of increase of the total illegal drug market, outstripped the S&P for the last 25 + years.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

the rise in value of the total illegal drug market, outstripped the S&P for the last 25 + yers.

Do you do their books?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

the rise in value of the total illegal drug market, outstripped the S&P for the last 25 + yers.

Really? How do you know that?

1 Reply

@livinglava,

barrons

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@livinglava,

The reason that organized crime is involved in the drug trade is because drugs are illegal, that is the "crime" in "organized crime".

When we stopped the war on alcohol, organized crime shrunk.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The reason that organized crime is involved in the drug trade is because drugs are illegal, that is the "crime" in "organized crime".

When we stopped the war on alcohol, organized crime shrunk.

Only because criminal activity gained immunity from prosecution.

1 Reply

@livinglava,

In which case it would no longer be criminal activity. Your circular reasoning is one of the reasons you are so fun to play with.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

In which case it would no longer be criminal activity. Your circular reasoning is one of the reasons you are so fun to play with.

I am familiar with your implication that crime is culturally relative and if you legalize crime, it is no longer crime.

That's a very superficial idea about crime, though. In reality, slavery was legal but it was always a crime against liberty. Murder and/or theft could be legalized by some political sleight of hand, but they would still be abusive actions perpetrated by some to exploit others.

Prohibition was a legitimate movement. Feminists and others of the time agreed that no good was coming of drinking and saloons. Men were wasting money and time fooling around and getting into brawls. Prohibition was an attempt at civilizing drunken behavior and improving family life.

The fact that organized crime stood strong and refused to give in to prohibition doesn't make it right that prohibition was repealed. If the 13th amendment was repealed, would that make slavery right? There is moral/ethical right and wrong beyond what government achieves with laws and policies.

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@livinglava,

In that case... I don't think drug use is a crime.

I think you are being silly.

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@livinglava,

In comparing prohibition and slavery you're comparing apples and hand grenades.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

In comparing prohibition and slavery you're comparing apples and hand grenades.

Have you studied the reasons for the prohibition movement? Do you realize it was a feminist movement aimed at stopping men from wasting household money and time at saloons, getting it brawls, etc.?

Don't you think those feminists were onto something when they thought that banning alcohol use in society would make life better?

Or do you find drunken debauchery better than sobriety?

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@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

In comparing prohibition and slavery you're comparing apples and hand grenades.

Have you studied the reasons for the prohibition movement? Do you realize it was a feminist movement aimed at stopping men from wasting household money and time at saloons, getting it brawls, etc.?

Don't you think those feminists were onto something when they thought that banning alcohol use in society would make life better?

Or do you find drunken debauchery better than sobriety?

LOL from the studies I had seen the average consumed of alcohol went up not down during prohibition and women started to go to bars in far greater numbers then they did before prohibition.

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@BillRM,

Living lava obviously thinks prohibition was a huge success. You can't fix stupid.

He's anti fun like a lot of religious nutjobs, he doesn't even want people to enjoy sex, I think it's obvious why that is but I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

2 Replies

How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

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