How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-slams-claims-he-gave-in-on-partial-shutdown-this-was-in-no-way-a-concession

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GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWNPublished 1 hour agoLast Update 59 mins ago
Trump signs bill to end partial government shutdown

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President Trump on Friday signed a short-term spending bill to re-open the government, ending the longest partial federal government shutdown in U.S. history. Trump signed the stop-gap spending bill just hours after the measure passed the Senate and House, respectively.

"On Friday, Jan. 25, 2019, the president signed into law: H.J. Res. 28, the 'Further Additional Continuing Appropriations Act, 2019,' which includes a short-term continuing resolution that provides fiscal year 2019 appropriations through Feb. 15, 2019, for continuing projects and activities of the Federal Government included in the remaining seven appropriations bills," the White House said in a statement late Friday. "Also included in the enrolled bill are provisions regarding retroactive pay and reimbursement, and extensions of certain authorities."

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

he has to be able to explain why the emergency is now, not sometime over the past decades - when there were higher numbers of illegal immigrants

We'll see.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

he has to be able to explain why the emergency is now, not sometime over the past decades -

Democrats and Republicans paid off by countless lobbyists. For a myriad of special interests, many that want this country gone. Trump is not listening to this bullshit.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

What I say is disingenuous are the leftist calls for Trump to give up all of his leverage and then "negotiate" when he has no leverage, when the Democrats have no intention of ever giving him what he wants.

Trump picked a fight with the "leftists" that he couldn't win. His only leverage was shutting down the government... and everyone knew that wouldn't work because in addition to hurting the government, it hurt his side more than it hurt the Democrats.

Stop treating Trump like a kid... this isn't kindergarten where everyone gets a fair turn.

Trump picked this fight with Pelosi, and he got his ass handed to him. Sorry, that is how the real world works. Trump is president, he really should have known better. Your feeling sorry for him is not merited.

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I'm worried about democrats gloating too soon. What happens if by Feb.15, there is still no agreement about the budget?

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@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

I'm worried about democrats gloating too soon. What happens if by Feb.15, there is still no agreement about the budget?

Maybe the same thing but I doubt it will last very long. If 35 days was too long the first time and democrats didn’t flinch, why would linger work? Americans don’t want the wall and the especially don’t think it’s worth shutting the government down. Not even republicans want the wall; no votes for 2 years.

When you’re teaching your toddler not to do something, sometimes he keeps on testing you but it’s important to be consistent with your behavior.

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@maporsche,

My guess is that they will extend it again. I think most Republicans knew the shutdown was a bad idea. The people who instigate the shutdown always lose. The minimum requirement to keep the public on your side is to pass a resolution to keep the government open. No one is going to have an appetite to repeat this fiasco.

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@maporsche,

If Trump would just accept the words border security in the place of the word wall, I think there will be no problem. I think in the words "border security" it includes places where actual structures can be built doesn't it along with other measures? I think (hope) now that the government is open Pelosi will find a way for government to remain open which will appease Trump's concern for his base while being smart about securing the border as long as while they are at it, include a way for Dreamers to permanently stay and illegals to have a pathway to citizenship if they are law abiding. To me that would be a good compromise. Pelosi's problem was not having the government open before negotiations, the government is now open and it's time to actually negotiate. If Trump's base will let him.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
What I say is disingenuous are the leftist calls for Trump to give up all of his leverage and then "negotiate" when he has no leverage, when the Democrats have no intention of ever giving him what he wants.

Trump picked a fight with the "leftists" that he couldn't win. His only leverage was shutting down the government... and everyone knew that wouldn't work because in addition to hurting the government, it hurt his side more than it hurt the Democrats.

Stop treating Trump like a kid... this isn't kindergarten where everyone gets a fair turn.

Trump picked this fight with Pelosi, and he got his ass handed to him. Sorry, that is how the real world works. Trump is president, he really should have known better. Your feeling sorry for him is not merited.

What I love is Trump could not get his wall when all branches of government was control by his party so how did he think he was going to do better now?

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@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

I'm worried about democrats gloating too soon. What happens if by Feb.15, there is still no agreement about the budget?

I play poker. When the poor sap on the other side of the table makes an super aggressive play (i.e. pushes in all of his chips) when I know I have him beat... it is an awesome feeling! I get all of his money. Yes, Trump and the Democrats are playing a high stakes game, and yes, the Democrats have the winning cards.

Politically speaking... if Trump shuts down down the government again that would be awesome for the Democrats. The shutdown only works if you can convince the public that it is the other sides fault... and Trump has already blown that. Sure, it would be bad for the country and people would suffer. But for the battle that is going on between Trump and the Democrat, if Trump shuts down the government again... the Democrats have an even greater strategic advantage. And it will undoubtedly translate into more power for them in future issues.

I don't believe that the Republican Senators will allow Trump to shut down the government again. It is simply too politically stupid.

Trump is not a hardened super villain. He is human and he is particularly weak. It is all bluster. He is not immune to the political pressures that keep every politician in line. Don't be fooled by the arrogant act. It is a bluff.

Trump will declare a National Emergency (unless the Republicans dissuade him from it). There is no other play that he has.

Don't worry. The Democrats have already won.

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@maxdancona,

The Fox News website (which I look at from time to time out of schadenfreude) is funny. They are burying the shutdown. The headline is about socialists... America... Venezuela blah blah blah. There is one tiny little mention of the shutdown... you have to scroll down through three screens to find it.

Maybe Trump won't notice that he got his ass handed to him Wink

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@maxdancona,

I suppose I don't look at the government as a game of Poker. It affects too many people. I see this "Wall" fight as a good way to get in immigration issues most leftist have been wanting a long time and it really doesn't hurt to beef up security along all the borders of our country. I just don't see why both sides can't come together on immigration. Most of the studies show that immigrants are a boon for our economy so it should be easy to solve the immigration reform issue. Simply beef up the borders of the country with whatever makes sense wherever needed and at the same time, give a pathway for citizenship and permanently let Dreamers stay in the country with a pathway to citizenship.

But simply putting up a massive wall along the Southern border is just wasteful and doesn't address the needs in securing the border anyway. I think if Trump could find a way to put a fig leaf on the "Wall" issue with his base and conservative talk hosts, he would go along with "border security" just to get it over with. But the trouble is, they won't let him, and we shouldn't give in to having 50 billions dollars or so just to build a wall along the southern border so I still see a difficult road ahead and more than likely, the issues will just get kicked around with nothing much to come out of it all in the end.

I don't see a need to keep going over this so I'll end it after this post, I just don't see really big need to celebrate other than the Federal workers getting paid and their back pay coming to them as well. Maybe they will be able to save their homes.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

Democracy is a game of poker. That is how the system works. We as a society have competing ideas about values and policy. Government works by letting different sides fight it out, each using the power it has to push for their values... and there is a peaceful way of resolving the battle lines.

Democracy is a designed to be an adversarial system... where one side makes gains and the other side takes losses. This is at the core of the system, and there is no other way.

I, as an American voter and part of this system of Democracy, do not want to have a border wall. I believe that the Southern Wall is more than "wasteful". It is, to me, a symbol of hatred, and fear and nationalism. It is not just the $50 billion dollars (which is my money by the way). It is a matter of what kind of country I want to be a part of.

I accept that this is my subjective opinion, and that other Americans disagree with me. I want my side to use its political power to push back against the wall.

Don't fetishize compromise. Compromise is one possible strategy, and sometime it is appropriate. Democracy as an adversarial system allows us to battle, and when neither side can gain... sure compromise often works out well. There are two reasons to compromise; either you are getting something of greater value to your side, or you have accepted defeat and want to minimize the damage to your side.

But when your side has the advantage in fight, and the issue is important to you, there is no reason to compromise. (Sure, the Democrats have to look like they are willing to compromise... but that is just part of the strategy).

If one side is fighting for every inch of territory to advance its values and gain political power, and the other side is looking for compromise... the system of democracy simply stops working.

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@maxdancona,

When my daughter was much younger, a couple of times she threw fantastic temper tantrums in the grocery store. She wanted junk food that I didn't think was good for her. She realized that I was uncomfortable disciplining her in public and reasoned that by making a scene she would have the upper hand. The screaming, crying, and outright defiance were amazing.

I had the ultimate power and the responsibility for her. There was no way that she could win this battle unless I let her. I could have compromised... buying her chocolate milk and a bag of oreos would have shut her up and ended the conflict. I strongly suspect that compromise would have made things much worse.

Instead I told her... you will never win a temper tantrum. And I stuck to it. A couple of of times this meant bothering, or even upsetting, a bunch of my fellow shoppers. We left the store with nothing and she ended up losing privileges for weeks. I had the power and she had to accept this. No compromise.

After a little time, things went back to normal. Not compromising when I had the power and a clear set of values ended up to be the best for everyone. (Update: my daughter is now an amazing, spirited, caring and creative teenager).

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Stop treating Trump like a kid... this isn't kindergarten where everyone gets a fair turn.
Trump picked this fight with Pelosi, and he got his ass handed to him. Sorry, that is how the real world works. Trump is president, he really should have known better. Your feeling sorry for him is not merited.

I have a strong sense of ethics. When the left engages in unethical behavior, I will call them on it.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

I'm worried about democrats gloating too soon. What happens if by Feb.15, there is still no agreement about the budget?

Then a national emergency is declared, and instead of trying to get the wall built by compromising with the Democrats, Trump will try to build the wall without offering a single thing to the Democrats.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

If Trump would just accept the words border security in the place of the word wall, I think there will be no problem.

Likewise if the Democrats would just accept the term wall. The Democrats gave up quite a bit just to spite Mr. Trump over a couple of words.

revelette1 wrote:

I think (hope) now that the government is open Pelosi will find a way for government to remain open which will appease Trump's concern for his base while being smart about securing the border as long as while they are at it, include a way for Dreamers to permanently stay and illegals to have a pathway to citizenship if they are law abiding.

Well, they won't. The Democrats have the same desire to spite Trump over nothing that they had during the shutdown. And now the Democrats are under no pressure to compromise.

revelette1 wrote:

To me that would be a good compromise.

You're right. It would be. But it isn't going to happen. The Democrats think it is far more important to spite Trump over the wall.

revelette1 wrote:

Pelosi's problem was not having the government open before negotiations, the government is now open and it's time to actually negotiate.

It was foolish to believe the Democrats when they said that. The shutdown was placing pressure on them to negotiate. Their call to eliminate this pressure to negotiate was not based on any desire to negotiate.

Negotiations are done now. Now that they face no pressure, the Democrats will not try to negotiate. Trump will try to do this by declaring an emergency.

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@oralloy,

lolz! That made me laugh. As if Trump has any type of moral compass or ethical behavior.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I play poker. When the poor sap on the other side of the table makes an super aggressive play (i.e. pushes in all of his chips) when I know I have him beat... it is an awesome feeling! I get all of his money.

Personally, I'd feel terrible.

I choose to never engage in any sort of gambling that results in harm to other people.

Of course, I'm not much for gambling in any case. But if I were to gamble, I wouldn't do anything like that.

maxdancona wrote:

Trump will declare a National Emergency (unless the Republicans dissuade him from it). There is no other play that he has.
Don't worry. The Democrats have already won.

So if the wall is built with a national emergency, and there is still no fix for DACA, that is a Democratic victory?

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@maxdancona,

Well, I guess we'll see in the coming weeks how all this budget battle is going to end up. Pelosi has already indicated she open to border security which is a compromise on the "Wall" so perhaps it will work out in the end. We'll have to see how Trump handles himself going forward. I am not against border security. I am definitely interested in reforming immigration and ICE through out the year and I hope they get to it sometime. I have my doubts but we'll see.

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