What does it take to be liberal? (Kicked out of the liberal club).

You said that what "matters most" is the number of Dems vs. the number of Repubs. I am indicating that that is not necessarily the case.

You could have twice as many of one party over the other and it would be third and/or fourth parties which determined the outcome, possibly outvoting the supposed majority party to the benefit of the alleged minority.

Sturgis, please explain how this fantastic system would work with multiple parties. We have a winner takes all system where the majority sets all of the committee leadership and the agenda. The leadership has great power beyond voting on legislation.

Let's imagine we elect some people as part of the green party, and some libertarians (or if you choose, you can make some fictional parties). They are going to have to choose the leadership they want. What happens (and has always happened) is that any minor party chooses to ally itself with one of two major parties, and one a minor party becomes powerful enough, it replaces one of the two major parties.

The system is set up to make this happen.

It doesn't matter how many parties you think there can be. The point is that the party in power matters.... and it matters a lot.

I give up!

You really can't think out of narrow predefined confines, can you?

Sturgis,

You are thinking out side the "narrow" confines of reality. I don't really even understand your argument. Let's look at the facts.

1. The party in power has an enormous amount of power, not just to win votes but to set committee leadership and control the agenda.

2. Third parties align themselves with one of the two main parties because they aren't stupid and they have no leverage if they don't.

3. This state of affairs is a direct result of how our winner takes all system of government is set up.

If you can't accept reality, and you can't suggest any realistic way to change reality, then I don't really get your point. You haven't argued against this points. Nor, have you suggested any way to counteract them.

You have every right to vote for a third party, or to vote for someone in the other party then the one you support based on their noble character.... but it doesn't make any different. The party that is in control matters more than anything else.

I have to agree with you.

BTW, Roger, you were kicked out of the conservative club too.

I have long suspected both. Oh, well.

I joined a bonsai club this week. Very interesting hobby bonsai is. Fascinating.

Izzat supposed to make you a Libertarian?

The Electoral College is not set upon a winner-take-all basis. After the 1832 election, states began passing legislation to make their electoral votes winner-take-all. It has nothing to do with how the government is set up. Right now, two states--Maine and Nebraska--do not use a winner-take-all allocation of electoral votes.

Ignorance of how the system works and of the constitution is as big an enemy of democracy as are the sleaze bags we all deplore (at least paying lip service to that).