glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2019 10:41 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

What if letting Trump have his wall meant that the Democrats could get immigration reform?

Trump is reasonable and likes to make deals. If the Democrats stopped their war against him and actually tried to get along with him, they'd probably like the results.

But if all you really want to do is fight and achieve nothing at all, Trump can certainly oblige you on that score as well.


I think it's cute that you are so naive.
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2019 10:44 pm
@coldjoint,
So, you crap on the streets in California???? Did your mother drop you on your head??? Perhaps it wasn't on purpose.
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2019 11:15 pm
@glitterbag,
Quote:
, you crap on the streets in California?

No. I do not live there, I own my house, am financially secure, and have never been homeless or voted for a party that wants to keep people that way.

You could actually try to contribute instead of your very lame insults. And, again, you flaunt the rules and bring family into it. Maybe you need a time out.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2019 11:36 pm
@glitterbag,
It has to be something more drastic.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 02:22 am
@hightor,
If you still think that ‘Washington mainstream’ candidates by definition have the best chances to get elected, you haven’t learnt from the last election.

If you think that Bernie Sanders’ policy proposals aren’t popular, you haven’t looked at them.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 03:15 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

oralloy wrote:

What if letting Trump have his wall meant that the Democrats could get immigration reform?

Trump is reasonable and likes to make deals. If the Democrats stopped their war against him and actually tried to get along with him, they'd probably like the results.

But if all you really want to do is fight and achieve nothing at all, Trump can certainly oblige you on that score as well.


I think it's cute that you are so naive.



The kind of cute that needs supervision.
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 03:22 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
If you still think that ‘Washington mainstream’ candidates by definition have the best chances to get elected, you haven’t learnt from the last election.

To be fair, we should look at elections not marred by excessive foreign interference.

At the very foundation, the candidate has to be a good one. Mrs. Clinton was not a good candidate. Neither was Mr. Sanders, as he couldn't attract enough Democrats to convincingly trounce Clinton and achieve a flat out victory in the primaries.
Quote:
If you think that Bernie Sanders’ policy proposals aren’t popular, you haven’t looked at them..

They look good, for the most part. But I think their appeal is skin deep — USAmericans are loathe to actually pay for anything.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 04:28 am
@hightor,
I agree the election was tampered and hence we should be cautious not to draw the wrong lessons.

IMO that election put to rest any idea that the American people is happy with the status quo and same-old ‘mainstream’ politicians.... voters are (were?) happy to take some risk.

Quote:
At the very foundation, the candidate has to be a good one. Mrs. Clinton was not a good candidate. Neither was Mr. Sanders


Still, Clinton was ‘good enough’ a candidate in my view. Sanders was good enough too, actually better. The system is stacked against them (and the Russians hammered Clinton) so they didn’t win. But it doesn’t mean there was anything terminally wrong with any of them.

Read or re-read the text posted by eBeth.

Quote:
You're going to have problems with EVERY POTENTIAL CANDIDATE. Get over that **** right now. That's YOUR baggage, not theirs. But if you continuously post your baggage online, you MAKE IT THEIR BAGGAGE. You drag them down and increase their chances of defeat.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 07:53 am
Liberal revolt threatens to derail House Dems on first day in charge

In the end, I think the rule is going to pass because the co-chairs of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, support the overall package.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 08:03 am
@revelette1,
They have to make some noise on day 1
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 08:10 am
@revelette1,
Are "progressives" actually advocating for more deficit spending and insinuating that paygo is actually some nefarious plot? Hasn't it been around for 30 years or something? If the Dems reveal themselves to be a nothing more than a loose assemblage of warring factions it's going to be a fun two years and the GOP will be swept in on a Trump wave in '20.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 08:17 am
@hightor,
It is the more firebrand type of the progressives who cause most of the trouble. But you are right, if they keep this up, once again we will end up losing. But yes, they do expect to just put in legislations for programs and then worry about payment later because republicans did it when they passed their tax cuts for the rich.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 09:03 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Are "progressives" actually advocating for more deficit spending and insinuating that paygo is actually some nefarious plot? Hasn't it been around for 30 years or something? If the Dems reveal themselves to be a nothing more than a loose assemblage of warring factions it's going to be a fun two years and the GOP will be swept in on a Trump wave in '20.


I asked the same question yesterday. Neither of the 2 "progressives" that I know of here bothered to respond.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 09:04 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

But yes, they do expect to just put in legislations for programs and then worry about payment later because republicans did it when they passed their tax cuts for the rich.


Then they will quickly lose my support for those programs that I'd otherwise be in favor of.

The Democrats, since Reagan, have been the party of fiscal responsibility. I don't mind large government programs, even Medicare for All, as long as there is a plan to pay for it that does not require taking out a mortgage on the kids of the nation.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 09:26 am
@snood,
snood wrote:
glitterbag wrote:
I think it's cute that you are so naive.
The kind of cute that needs supervision.
If all you want is to fight and achieve nothing, Trump can oblige you on that. He is more than able to fight you and ensure that you achieve nothing.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 09:56 am
I hate to agree with Orally here, however, in a sense I agree. Someone has got to step up and be the grown up in Washington and it sure as the world ain't going to be Trump. Congress, the House and Senate has got to compromise and find face saving out for Trump. The senate won't go against the President and vote for any bill which leaves nothing for the wall for Trump. But if a bill passed all houses in Washington which saves Dreamers and other immigration issues but also ends up giving some money for the "wall", I think it should be done. Sooner rather than later.

Federal workers won't see a check for weeks
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 10:09 am
@revelette1,
Agreeing with me isn't a bad thing. I'm one of the good guys. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 10:10 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I don't mind large government programs, even Medicare for All, as long as there is a plan to pay for it that does not require taking out a mortgage on the kids of the nation.
If the government incurs a massive debt and prints lots of money to pay interest on it, inflation rates will go way up to combat inflation. Really high interest rates mean that few people will be able to afford private debt.

Essentially society's overall level of debt would remain about the same. People would have to rent rather than get a mortgage for a house. Cars would have to be bought with layaway plans. And debit cards would completely replace credit cards.

So our descendants would not face a greater total debt burden. It would just be all government debt and no private debt.

I'm not suggesting that the government should do this. I'm just pointing out that the overall debt burden on our descendants would not actually increase if it happened.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 10:20 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
I don't mind large government programs, even Medicare for All, as long as there is a plan to pay for it that does not require taking out a mortgage on the kids of the nation.
I'm not suggesting that the government should do this. I'm just pointing out that the overall debt burden on our descendants would not actually increase if it happened.


I don't agree.

But assuming what you say is true, people can choose to buy a home or buy a car. They can CHOOSE to take on that debt if they want.

Government printed debt is something that would be strapped around the future's ankles...not by THEIR choice, but by OURS. That's not moral.

I don't support that when the Republicans screw up the budget like they have done my ENTIRE life and I won't support it if the Democrats choose to do it.
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Jan, 2019 10:32 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
But assuming what you say is true, people can choose to buy a home or buy a car. They can CHOOSE to take on that debt if they want.

Government printed debt is something that would be strapped around the future's ankles...not by THEIR choice, but by OURS. That's not moral.

It doesn't actually matter that much whether the debt is private or public, because repaying it causes investors to drive up prices to extract the money for the debt. I remember at one point during the last recession, some investor eventually popped up and started talking about how they decided to invest in a commodity that they were absolutely sure would be good for rendering returns, food.

When people overspend and then jack up the price of food to force consumers to pay their debts, it forces those consumers to shoulder a heavier burden, etc. What everyone should be doing is going without as much as they can to reduce their own debt burden and thus the burden on everyone else to cough up the money to repay all debt, public and private.

We have to live modest, even austere, frugal lives. When fiscal liberals mock fiscal discipline using words like, 'austerian economics,' it exudes such ignorance. By reducing expenditures, we reduce burden on others. There's no taxing the rich that doesn't get passed on as higher costs for the poor and middle class. It's all connected within the same big fiscal circulatory system. If you want to reduce the burden for the most vulnerable, you can't put more tax pressure on the rich. What goes around comes around.
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.18 seconds on 11/27/2024 at 04:48:10