Progressives (Liberals)

Paygo is the Republican trap set for Democrats. They run up the deficit as high as possible, to make their people happy at the expense of social programs. Democrats end up allowing cuts, fearing the deficit. If Democrats continue to let Republicans set the agenda like this, Republicans will always win the long goal races.

2 Replies

@edgarblythe,

Why not cut defense spending to lower the deficit instead of irresponsibly running it up further? There's plenty of money to go around; the country just has its priorities in the wrong place.

3 Replies

@hightor,

Because establishment Democrats and most Republicans prefer to fund neverending military adventures.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Why not cut defense spending to lower the deficit instead of irresponsibly running it up further? There's plenty of money to go around; the country just has its priorities in the wrong place.

That's just the problem. You don't want all that money to 'go around.' The economy is overly wasteful as it is. What you want is for people to spend more carefully. People who only want liberal spending and growth are people who waste the future to indulge in the present.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Paygo is the Republican trap set for Democrats. They run up the deficit as high as possible, to make their people happy at the expense of social programs. Democrats end up allowing cuts, fearing the deficit. If Democrats continue to let Republicans set the agenda like this, Republicans will always win the long goal races.

Republican irresponsibility is obvious and should be corrected by Democrats. It's one of the reason's I'm a Democrat and not a Republican. One party in our country is fiscally responsible and one isn't.

Not by cutting social programs (necessarily), but by raising taxes and funds to pay for the programs that are being implemented.

3 Replies

@maporsche,

Quote:

but by raising taxes and funds to pay for the programs that are being implemented.

Sure, fund the programs that have destroyed the black family and promote victim hood and ensure division. People that created the problems have no interest in fixing them.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Republican irresponsibility is obvious and should be corrected by Democrats. It's one of the reason's I'm a Democrat and not a Republican. One party in our country is fiscally responsible and one isn't.

Not by cutting social programs (necessarily), but by raising taxes and funds to pay for the programs that are being implemented.

Are you really trying to change the meaning of 'fiscal responsibility' to mean raising taxes to pay for more spending?

Don't you understand that cutting spending is the traditional manner of taking fiscal responsibility? I.e. spending more responsibly instead of less?

The more socialists try to radically transform political language and concepts to support spending as a given, the more you are undermining democracy as a way of keeping the peace.

2 Replies

More Powerful Than Putin
‏

@PDiddie
6h6 hours ago
More
Are there really only two members of the #116thCongress brave enough to vote no on #PayGo today? Are the rest of the @USProgressives really that scared of #SpeakerPelosi, "Icon of Female Power"? #Sad #DemsTakeTheHouse but hand the power right back to the @GOP

1 Reply

Cenk Uygur
‏
Verified account

@cenkuygur
16h16 hours ago
More
If @NancyPelosi is such a “master legislator,” why do Dems have to pass #PAYGO that kneecaps themselves as first order of business? Did the @GOP pass #TAXGO where they didn’t pass tax cuts unless they could pay for it? Of course not, why would they punch themselves in the face?

0 Replies

@livinglava,

I'm not changing any meanings.

Responsibility means paying your bills in this sense. You can pay your bills by either a) reducing your bills to a level you can afford or b) bringing in more money than you need to pay your bills.

I'm suggesting that if Democrats want to implement Medicare for All (for example) they had better include a way to fund that program or I won't support it.

THAT is responsible.

Cutting spending is one way, raising taxes is another.

In your personal life, you can either spend less money or you can make more money. As long as you're paying your bills, saving for the future, and not taking on unnecessary debt then you can be considered responsible (fiscally).

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

More Powerful Than Putin
‏

@PDiddie
6h6 hours ago
More
Are there really only two members of the #116thCongress brave enough to vote no on #PayGo today? Are the rest of the @USProgressives really that scared of #SpeakerPelosi, "Icon of Female Power"? #Sad #DemsTakeTheHouse but hand the power right back to the @GOP

The rest of the USProgressives are more responsible than the two who voted no, I can tell you that.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I don't agree.

What part do you think is wrong? Do you think that if the government prints a ton of money to pay interest on a massive debt, that won't drive up inflation?

Do you think the Fed won't respond to high inflation by raising interest rates to combat it?

Do you think that really high interest rates won't make private borrowing impossible?

maporsche wrote:

But assuming what you say is true, people can choose to buy a home or buy a car. They can CHOOSE to take on that debt if they want.

Government printed debt is something that would be strapped around the future's ankles...not by THEIR choice, but by OURS. That's not moral.

I don't support that when the Republicans screw up the budget like they have done my ENTIRE life and I won't support it if the Democrats choose to do it.

I've no objections to balancing the budget and paying down the debt. I'd even rather do it through (moderately) higher taxes on the rich instead of with government spending cuts.

But note that there are a lot of people out there who would prefer a smaller government and would want to see the budget balanced through spending cuts alone. Those people get a vote in our system too.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

But note that there are a lot of people out there who would prefer a smaller government and would want to see the budget balanced through spending cuts alone. Those people get a vote in our system too.

Obviously. I don't have a problem with people who have that worldview even. I think they're wrong though, but I can understand this worldview as being a valid one.

It's my job, and especially the job of the progressives, to change their mind if they want to enact their proposals.

Instead they are focusing on attacking Democrats.

This is why their policies won't succeed in the near term.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

I agree.

0 Replies

@livinglava,

livinglava wrote:

We have to live modest, even austere, frugal lives.

I wouldn't go that far. There is room for a bit of middle-class indulgence in life.

1 Reply

@hightor,

hightor wrote:

Why not cut defense spending to lower the deficit instead of irresponsibly running it up further?

Because we don't want to be killed or enslaved by the bad guys.

0 Replies

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Because establishment Democrats and most Republicans prefer to fund neverending military adventures.

Indeed I do. I like being safe and protected.

0 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Republican irresponsibility is obvious and should be corrected by Democrats. It's one of the reason's I'm a Democrat and not a Republican. One party in our country is fiscally responsible and one isn't.
Not by cutting social programs (necessarily), but by raising taxes and funds to pay for the programs that are being implemented.

I think you're wrong about Democratic fiscal responsibility. I think most Democrats are more eager to spend government money than they are to raise taxes.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

I think I've seen data that shows how far deficits grow during and immediately after Republican administrations and the most recent massive legislation passed by Democrats (the ACA) was designed to be deficit neutral. The economic meltdown was not something that Democrats wanted to have to deal with, but they worked with Republicans on what needed to be done and GWB signed in to law stimulus packages that were agreed by both parties to deal with an unusual circumstance.

While Republicans have passed unfunded tax cuts, started two massive unfunded wars in the middle east, and when a republican president (Bush 1) tried to do the responsible thing and raise taxes to fund programs/wars....Republicans essential fired him and made him a one-term president.

So, no, I'm pretty sure I'm spot on.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Started two wars? I can see how Republicans started Iraq-2003. What other war would they have started?

I don't think it's the Republicans' fault that Bush senior lost reelection. Poirot siphoned a lot of votes away from him.

0 Replies

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