0
   

If you think men should help decide if a woman gets an abortion, just shut up.

 
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2018 06:26 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Just thinking maybe you needed someone to take you by the hand and tell you how to do everything. It was sarcasm, although not directed at you.


Oh. Jokes. I get jokes. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2018 06:54 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Quote:
I also think a wife should have an opinion on a vasectomy should a man decide to do that.

As far as my vasectomy went, I had to have permission from my wife, all of the guys I know who had it done also had to have their spouses permission and in most cases, they wanted you to already have kids because doing a reversal was painful and not always successful. There were signed consent forms indicating her agreement with the procedure, if she had disagreed, the Dr would not have done it.

I mention this every time a woman mentions needing her husbands permission, it's no different for men. I've heard stories of needing a father's permission for an adult woman who were not married. I think we are decades past such treatment, but spouses permission is a real thing. Mine was done in 2006 and most of the guys who I know who have had it done were all in the last 3 years, so the rules haven't changed.


Bull.
There's no legal requirement to get the spouses consent.

A lot of doctors individually won't, as I'm sure they are largely afraid of lawsuits after the fact.

You have the option to find a doctor who will.

You might have to travel, but hey, women have to travel all the time to get abortions.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 12:48 am
@chai2,
Quote:
You get hormones via the iud as well. Or, it's made from copper, which has it's own set of problems

As I said, there's no trouble-free way to shut down a functional uterus. Even abstinence involves higher risks of uterine cancer.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 07:55 am
@Olivier5,
Yeah I heard that. I was wondering why you brought up this particular method over all the others women could use, and especially why you called it temporary sterilization.

If doesn’t sterilize you, it treats birth control with hormones, and/ or causes very early term miscarriages on a constant basis while it’s within the woman’s body. It hurts like hell to have it inserted and taken out by a health care professional, a lot of the time causes massively heavy periods for months, and other.

All I can think is that you must know one or more women who use them and are happy with the it. That’s great for them. Not saying that sarcastically either. If it works, it works.

Just don’t know why you picked that particular method, when it’s not better or worse on a theoretical level than any other method that uses hormones.

izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 08:02 am
@chai2,
Ben Elton did a skit about condoms v the coil. 'I can't use condoms because they cut down on my sensitivity and I need to feel everything because I really really love you. Here, go and stick a bit of barbed wire up your ****.'
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 08:11 am
@chai2,
Sorry. Editing. On my phone and easier to start a new post.

I guess you brought this up because of fence sitters.

They already know they have options for many types of birth control.

If a woman tells her doctor she wants to be sterilized, she is not a fence sitter. The health care professional is trying to make her one by threatening her with regrets.
Women understand if they have this done it’s forever (and are thinking Thank God). That is the big attraction.

I do think there should be some kind of screening to be certain the woman understands that, and that she is aware that some day, for some unknown reason, they might “regret” it, and want to have the procedure.

It is not the place of anyone, phsician or not, to tell the woman she is Going to regret it, and refuse them.

A woman who wants to never have a child, or more children, isn’t interest in hearing more about birth control methods she already knew about. She wants the whole thing over with.

She doesn’t go into it with trepidation about the small potential for regrets. She goes into it with great excitement and happiness knowing this burden for her has been lifted.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 08:24 am
@izzythepush,
Oh God YES!

(For those who may feel the need to inform me, yes I know it’s not crushed wire. The thought of putting anything long term into and through openings in my lady parts produces the same amount of nausea inducing as that concept)

Fear of lawsuits aside, I feel the “you’ll regret it” contingent has experienced or maybe more likely heard and bought into others saying that sappy “ I thought I didn’t want children either, but the I had little Buford and I can’t imagine life without him.” Usually followed with “I just didn’t know what Love was before”

izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 08:43 am
@chai2,
People should be in charge of their own bodies. It tends to be predominantly men who like to tell women what they should do with theirs.
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 09:13 am
@izzythepush,
You know, these last few posts have got me thinking.

Throughout the years, I have had a least a dozen people (a couple of men among them) inform me that I should have children. Some of these people preface this with saying "You'd be a wonderful mother" When at times I would respond with "no I wouldn't" the answer was Always "oh no, you would be really great"

A few times, they would go on with insisting, until I would say "I don't have children because I didn't want to end up in prison, which is where I would be today because I'm sure I would have killed or abused them" Unsurprisingly, that would pretty much shock them out of their fantasy.

I'm not an evil person. I just don't have the capacity to have a child, because I would end up doing harm to them. An evil person would know this, and go ahead and have them anyway.

Yet, back in the day, when I was in my 20's and wanted to be sterilized, I was told I would regret it, and was refused. To be honest, I didn't pursue it beyond that, because I knew I'd get the same answer from other doctors. So, I just took it upon myself to be responsible for not letting a child happen. It was just the easier path.

Yet, I have never heard anyone say to me, or anyone else that I know of "You should not have children"

Why, when a doctor verifies someones pregnancy, do they never (at least to my knowledge, except for medical reasons) say "Are you sure you want to have this child? You'll regret it. We can easily take care of this now if you realize that."

Yet, daily we read/hear/learn of horrific things that were done to children. By people who where told "you'd be a wonderful mother", or "It's so great you're pregnant, now you'll know what true love is" (which begs the question, didn't you truly love your parents, partner, siblings, friends etc?)

So many many more women, whether they will admit it outside their own mind or not, regret having a child, than a woman who regrets having done something to prevent that.

How many of those woman had a child because they drank the kool aide? Why, for that matter, does anyone feel the need to offer their opinion, many times just to fill air space, on the fitness of anyone to have an raise a child?

Because it makes them feel good to say that.

Maybe, as unheard of as it might seem, the question/comment to a newly pregnant woman should be "How do your feel about this?" rather than "That's Wonderful!"

Perhaps that's the type of question that may help a woman decide/give her permission regarding what to do about her situation, letting her think about, or vocalize an answer, rather than shoving a "that's wonderful" at her.




izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 09:19 am
@chai2,
Kids, especially at the beginning are bloody hard work. that's something a lot of people like to gloss over.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 09:25 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

People should be in charge of their own bodies. It tends to be predominantly men who like to tell women what they should do with theirs.


I don't know izzy. Maybe in the public "men make the laws" way, but let me tell you, other women can be quite rabid in telling you how fulfilled your life would be. Because, as they will proclaim "It's all worth it"

What is this "it" exactly?

And is "it" really all worth whatever it is?

Hmmm...why does no one ask that?

I wonder what the response would be if a woman said in front of others "I had an abortion, had to travel 2 states over to get it. It created a lot of tension in my family, I walked through the gauntlet of both official and unofficial obstacles to do this, it cost money I just didn't have, I was made to feel to be an awful person and so forth.....But It Was All Worth It."
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 09:27 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Kids, especially at the beginning are bloody hard work. that's something a lot of people like to gloss over.


I dunno. I think manslaugher of teens should be decriminalized. Razz
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 03:37 pm
@chai2,
I jut raised it as one possibility among others, that's all. I know nobody who uses it. Wife and I have been using condoms forever. Maybe the term "temporary sterilization" wasn't the best one...
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 03:45 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
I wonder what the response would be if a woman said in front of others "I had an abortion, had to travel 2 states over to get it. It created a lot of tension in my family, I walked through the gauntlet of both official and unofficial obstacles to do this, it cost money I just didn't have, I was made to feel to be an awful person and so forth.....But It Was All Worth It."


I remember a fair bit of this kind of message in the 1970's and 1980's. In person and in magazines. Women talked about what they went through to have abortions and how it was the right decision for them/their families at the time. It seems a bit weird that those discussions have gone back underground.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 03:47 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
“you’ll regret it”


choosing not to have children

choosing to have tattoos

choosing to shave your head



no regrets

(and not up to anyone else)
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Sat 21 Jul, 2018 08:13 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:


I remember a fair bit of this kind of message in the 1970's and 1980's. In person and in magazines. Women talked about what they went through to have abortions and how it was the right decision for them/their families at the time. It seems a bit weird that those discussions have gone back underground.


Yeah, I remember this too.

Some people respond to the "it was the right decision".

If I do say so myself, I think it would be amazing to thrust that tired old "But it was all worth it" right back at them in at least a percentage of the PSA's. Especially the sanctimonious ones. There would be great laughter among the childfree over that.

0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2018 09:56 am
@chai2,
Quote:
Bull.

Bull? What's bull?

Quote:
There's no legal requirement to get the spouses consent.

Who said anything about legal consent, I never said it was a law, just a requirement from Dr's.
Were there legal requirements in the past that have since been removed or were all the stories from women over the years just Dr's prerogative? Or are you just being negative because you don't think men need their wife's permission for such procedures?

Quote:
A lot of doctors individually won't, as I'm sure they are largely afraid of lawsuits after the fact.

Actually the pre-requirements are to prevent lawsuits afterwards.

Quote:
You have the option to find a doctor who will.

You might have to travel, but hey, women have to travel all the time to get abortions.

Do you really? Most people have insurance plans that cover the procedure and a lot of those requirements come from the insurance companies and what they will and will not cover.

I don't think you have approached this part of the subject with any sort of reason, just some preconceived notions about what takes place in the Dr's office. Ask any men you know if they had the Big V done and what was required of them before it was done, you might be surprised by their answers.

chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2018 02:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Who said anything about legal consent?

I did.
There is not legal requirement to get permission from a spouse to get an abortion.
That is a stand alone statement.

It is NOT a requrement from doctors. It is a requirement from SOME doctors.

If it were the legal requirement of doctors, period, they would have to have some kind of law behind them.

It's not doctors prerogative, it is SOME doctors preogative.

Not being negative, just understanding what words mean.

And no, I don't believe any woman of legal age has to get the permission of anyone to get an abortion, or a tubal for that matter. No more than I believe a man needs to get anyones permission to get a vasectomy.

You said something before about insurance, as if that is a solution to everything.

There is no general "you have insurance"

#1, it depends on what your particular plan will or will not cover.
#2, even if your plan covers a procedure such as abortion, that is not saying that your health care provider will supply it, or refer you to anyone who does.

There are, doing a quick Google search, which is hopefully up to date, 7 states that currently have 1 abortion clinic each.

http://kkyr.com/files/2018/04/18-Lost-in-Space-Featurette-The-Robinsons-Journey-HD-Netflix-YouTube-Google-Chrome.png?w=980&q=75

That would be Kentucky, West Virginia, Missouri, Wyoming, South Dakota, North Dakota & Mississipi with one clinic each.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/5899f93f3149a12d008b5b4b-960-720.png

In addition, there are only 15 states where Medicaid covers abortion.

ALASKA
CALIFORNIA
CONNECTICUT
HAWAI'I
MARYLAND
MASSACHUSETTS
MINNESOTA
MONTANA
NEW JERSEY
NEW MEXICO
NEW YORK
OREGON
VERMONT
WASHINGTON
WEST VIRGINIA

BTW, these are in caps because I cut and pasted from a website.

https://abortionfunds.org/medicaid/

There is overlap of one state, West Virginia, where there is only one clinic, but you may be able to get Medicaid to pay for the procedure, if you can get to that clinic.

If all you have is Medicaid, you would have to travel to one of these states.

All making this very difficult some many women to have access to safe abortions.

Honestly baldimo, if you're going to make general false statements such as "doctors require permission", or "insurance will cover it" you really need to be prepared to be given the correct information without resorting to "nuh uh, that's not what I (exactly) said"








chai2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2018 02:28 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Ask any men you know if they had the Big V done and what was required of them before it was done, you might be surprised by their answers.




Guess you don't pay attention to my posts.
My husband had one more than 10 years before we met.

I did, right after your reading your incorrect post about doctors needing receive proof of persmission from the spouse (not some doctors), asked him if he said he needed his then wifes permission to give to the doctor.

His response? "No more than she needed my permission to get pregnant the year before I got the vasectomy done." Which, for what it's worth, wasn't what ended their marriage.
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 23 Jul, 2018 03:34 pm
@chai2,
Quote:
Honestly baldimo, if you're going to make general false statements such as "doctors require permission", or "insurance will cover it" you really need to be prepared to be given the correct information without resorting to "nuh uh, that's not what I (exactly) said"


Don't be pissy, I'm just sharing mine and other men I know personal experiences with getting the surgery done. If you have problems with what I described, then go talk to the Dr's who hand out consent forms in the consultation packets, which a majority of men I know have received.

As for the abortion issue, I don't care. It doesn't rate on my scale of important political issues and I have a tendency to stay away from politicians who make it issue #1 from either side.

0 Replies
 
 

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