0
   

If you think men should help decide if a woman gets an abortion, just shut up.

 
 
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:43 am
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
He's not the one who gets pregnant, carries, gives birth and ruins his body.
True, but he's the one who gets stuck paying child support. Unwanted parenthood has serious consequences for men too.

chai2 wrote:
A man can rely on himself as much as he wants....while I rely on myself and understand getting pregnant only happens to me, and if I don't want to, it's ultimately up to me. I have no faith in anything except what I do, or what I personally observe a sexual partner doing. If I didn't see it, it didn't happen.
I agree.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:44 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
That’s called abstinence, much heralded and a complete fairy tale.
Yes. I believe that is indeed what it is called.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:45 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
What's your beef with the pills?
My beef???

I wasn't the one who suggested that guys could get by fine on condoms and abstinence.
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:49 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:
What's your beef with the pills?
My beef???

I wasn't the one who suggested that guys could get by fine on condoms and abstinence.


Who suggested that?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:53 am
@maporsche,
You were the person who suggested it.

You later amended your suggestion to also include having men take charge of women's use of birth control. Although you never explained how men were supposed to do that.
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:56 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
If condoms alone are enough, why is there any need for other birth control options?


they aren't

they're a good supplemental form of birth control and health care
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:58 am
@ehBeth,
I agree.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 10:59 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

If women don't want to have a child, they can keep their pants zipped up too. So there is no need for women to have access to abortions or birth control pills.


sex

people like to have sex

if they don't want to have children as a result, they need to have birth control options

sex

sex is a good thing

it's a fun thing

it should be encouraged for consenting adults

sex

sex is a healthy thing - physically and emotionally

a variety of birth control options is a good thing

__

gotta agree with mcGentrix with pretty much everything he posted somewhere upthread

communication and birth control are really good for good sex
ehBeth
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:01 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
there is no need for women to have access to abortions and birth control pills.


this would be oralloy again suggesting birth control pills are not necessary
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:11 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
oralloy wrote:
there is no need for women to have access to abortions and birth control pills.
this would be oralloy again suggesting birth control pills are not necessary
Context is important. I was responding to a claim that condoms and abstinence were good enough.

If that claim had been true, if condoms and abstinence alone were good enough, then there would be no need for access to abortions and birth control pills.

My post was meant to illustrate how wrong that claim is, however. I was not agreeing with the claim.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:15 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

You were the person who suggested it.

You later amended your suggestion to also include having men take charge of women's use of birth control. Although you never explained how men were supposed to do that.


Well, there is a lie.

I would NEVER suggest that abstinence to be used as birth control. Not because it wouldn't reduce the chance of an unwanted pregnancy to zero but because I would NEVER promote abstinence among adults. It's unrealistic and IMO opinion unhealthy.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:20 am
Making abortion illegal just drives it underground. There are loads of horror stories about what happened before it was legalised.

Vera was one of the nice ones but this still isn't easy to watch by any means.



Why shouldn't women be allowed to be promiscuous? They're not hurting anyone. This sounds very much like sour grapes from those who don't get any so they don't want anyone else to.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:33 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Well, there is a lie.
Here is the post where you said it:
http://able2know.org/topic/468371-1#post-6678471

maporsche wrote:
I would NEVER suggest that abstinence to be used as birth control. Not because it wouldn't reduce the chance of an unwanted pregnancy to zero but because I would NEVER promote abstinence among adults. It's unrealistic and IMO opinion unhealthy.
True. You talked about condoms instead.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:35 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Why shouldn't women be allowed to be promiscuous? They're not hurting anyone.
Why shouldn't men?

izzythepush wrote:
This sounds very much like sour grapes from those who don't get any so they don't want anyone else to.
No. It sounds like feminist hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:38 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
Well, there is a lie.
Here is the post where you said it:
http://able2know.org/topic/468371-1#post-6678471

maporsche wrote:
I would NEVER suggest that abstinence to be used as birth control. Not because it wouldn't reduce the chance of an unwanted pregnancy to zero but because I would NEVER promote abstinence among adults. It's unrealistic and IMO opinion unhealthy.
True. You talked about condoms instead.



So your statement that I "suggested that guys could get by fine on condoms and abstinence." IS FALSE.

Also, you seem to take my comment that men could use condoms as a form of birth control and used that to state "So there is no need for women to have access to abortions and birth control pills."

I refuted that later on, stating that women would still want to manage their own birth control needs both because it's more effective than condom use alone and because of the trust issues that chai2 mentioned.


I'm not sure what you're doing here, but you come off looking pretty bad.
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:47 am
@oralloy,
Setanta wrote:

Boo-hoo . . . actions have consequences. What a whiny response. Any man who doesn't want to face those consequences can keep it in his pants, or take responsibility for birth control.


oralloy wrote:

I'm curious. How does a man take responsibility for birth control?

I'm not exactly sure how the man assumes responsibility for birth control in this equation.


Then I mentioned that men can used condoms if they don't want the girl to get pregnant. They should be aware that condoms are only 85% effective (97% if used correctly) though, which is why doctors and health professionals recommend women to also be on the pill for family planning purposes.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:56 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
So your statement that I "suggested that guys could get by fine on condoms and abstinence." IS FALSE.
No. You did suggest that. Your post offered no other recourse.

maporsche wrote:
Also, you seem to take my comment that men could use condoms as a form of birth control and used that to state "So there is no need for women to have access to abortions and birth control pills."
Well, if condoms are good enough, as you had then stated, then there would indeed be no need for abortions and birth control pills.

maporsche wrote:
I refuted that later on, stating that women would still want to manage their own birth control needs both because it's more effective than condom use alone and because of the trust issues that chai2 mentioned.
You didn't specify women.

Since you were addressing the subject of "how a man could take charge of birth control" it appeared that you were suggesting that men take charge of a women's use of birth control.

But with your explanation here, I now see that you were merely acknowledging that you were wrong and I was right. Fair enough.

maporsche wrote:
I'm not sure what you're doing here, but you come off looking pretty bad.
I'm defending civil rights and gender equality. That makes me look wonderful.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 11:59 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
Then I mentioned that men can used condoms if they don't want the girl to get pregnant.
Yes. And as I pointed out, and you later agreed, that isn't nearly good enough.

maporsche wrote:
They should be aware that condoms are only 85% effective (97% if used correctly) though, which is why doctors and health professionals recommend women to also be on the pill for family planning purposes.
So your suggestion that this was good enough, was wrong, and I was right to point out that it was wrong.
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 12:00 pm
@oralloy,
Yeah, you're a paragon of virtue and honesty.

/sarcasm
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Mon 16 Jul, 2018 12:01 pm
@oralloy,
You are wrong. That is all. I won't try to explain to you how, but everyone here can see.
 

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