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How The Gun Industry Funnels Tens Of Millions Of Dollars To The NRA

 
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 03:03 pm
Constitution Check: Are there no limits on Second Amendment rights?

Quote:
Over the time since 1791, when the Bill if Rights was ratified, the Supreme Court has given its blessing to an entire governing edifice that regulates First Amendment rights: the laws of libel and defamation, limits on publishing secret military strategy, regulation of “obscene” and “indecent” expression, and limits on “hate speech.” Famously, the court has said that one has no right to shout “Fire!” in a crowded theater. Even the right to worship freely sometimes is curbed by laws that regulate conduct that has religious meaning.

In contrast to the First Amendment, there is very little constitutional history about the meaning of the Second Amendment. In fact, until just five years ago, the “right to keep and bear arms” was not generally understand as a personal right to have a gun, even for self-defense. It was only in 2008 that the Supreme Court declared that such a personal right does, indeed, exist.

That decision, in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, is – so far – the most important decision the court has ever issued on the scope of the “right to keep and bear arms.” But in that very ruling, the Court said explicitly: “Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.” It went on to say just as clearly that it was not barring the government from imposing “reasonable regulation” on that right.

Is a “reasonable regulation” of gun rights, then, an “infringement” on those rights? If the word “infringement” means to encroach on something, as one does when one “trespasses” on someone else’s private property, that does not support the idea that Second Amendment rights are absolutes. Government can “trespass” on private property to put out a fire, for example.

Still, the debate goes on about when, or if, government should have the power to regulate gun rights. The statements quoted above, from two gun rights enthusiasts, suggest that even within that community, there can be disagreement about whether the time has come to agree on some “rational points” about the Second Amendment.

The Supreme Court, of course, could re-enter into that national debate if it felt a need to clarify just what kind of “regulation” of gun rights is allowed without being found to violate the Second Amendment.

Up to now, however, the Court does not seem to sense that need. It has issued only one significant gun rights decision since the 2008 ruling, and that 2010 decision in McDonald v. Chicago expanded the personal right to a gun to exist at the state and local level, as well as at the federal level. The court did not go further to explain what it would allow in gun regulation by state and local governments.

It has been asked, every year since then, to take on a variety of new cases, to answer some of the lingering questions: does the personal right to have a gun extend beyond one’s own home, who can be forbidden to have a gun at all, when can a gun be carried in public in a concealed way, what types of guns or ammunition can be regulated or even banned, what places in a community are too sensitive or too prone to violence to allow guns in them, how can the government trace a gun that has been used in a violent incident, how freely should gun shows be allowed to operate?

However, the Court has resisted giving an answer to any follow-up questions. And what that has meant, in the national conversation over gun rights, is that anyone’s argument about the extent of those rights is just as good as anyone else’s, and neither side needs to listen to the arguments that the other side makes.

Gun control will go on being an issue in politics and in government, at all levels, but the constitutional rules that could shape how for government may go remain unmade.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/constitution-check-are-there-no-limits-on-second-amendment-rights/
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 07:00 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
Who Does the NRA Represent?

The NRA defends the civil rights of all Americans.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 07:01 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
How the NRA hijacks gun control debates

Representing the pro-civil rights side in a debate over civil rights is hardly hijacking the debate.

The beginning of that video was preposterous (I didn't bother to watch the end). Liberals apparently define a debate as an event where they spew falsehoods and no one opposes them.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 07:02 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
Constitution Check: Are there no limits on Second Amendment rights?

There are limits on all rights. But a right can only be limited if that limitation can be justified with a good reason.

No justification exists for banning assault weapons.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  4  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 07:54 pm
Does the NRA Represent Gun Owners or Manufacturers?

coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:05 pm
The Young Turks are progressives. I would watch, but have probably heard it a million times before, it does not matter who repeats it.



https://www.laprogressive.com/young-turks/
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:18 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
Does the NRA Represent Gun Owners or Manufacturers?

The NRA defends the civil rights of gun owners.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:28 pm
There seems to be this idea floating around that if you can somehow vilify the NRA, then you have successfully vilified guns and gun owners.
Real Music
 
  3  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:41 pm
No, There’s No 2nd Amendment Right To AR-15s

coldjoint
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:46 pm
@Glennn,
Quote:
if you can somehow vilify the NRA, then you have successfully vilified guns and gun owners.


Considering the absolute majority of gun owners are not in the NRA you might be on to something.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:52 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
There seems to be this idea floating around that if you can somehow vilify the NRA, then you have successfully vilified guns and gun owners.

I don't know what they think they are going to achieve. Pretending that the NRA doesn't defend our rights isn't going to prevent the NRA from defending our rights.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Mar, 2018 08:56 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
No, There’s No 2nd Amendment Right To AR-15s

That is incorrect. If there is no justification for banning a weapon, we have the right to have it.

And there is no justification for banning AR-15s.

But I do encourage the gun banners to exhaust themselves over an unjustifiable ban that has no hope of passing. Doing so ensures that they won't be passing any other gun control either.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Thu 29 Mar, 2018 10:52 pm
The Greedy Gun Lobby
Mar 31, 2015







The (Act 192) law that had allowed lawsuits over gun ordinances was struck down and ruled unconstitutional Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
June 25, 2015

Quote:
HARRISBURG, Pa. — The Commonwealth Court determined Act 192, which allowed legal gun owners to sue municipalities if they enacted gun ordinances that were more stringent than state laws and then put those municipalities on the hook for legal fees as well, is unconstitutional and therefore void.

The controversial law sparked several lawsuits against dozens of municipalities, including Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Lancaster and Harrisburg. Today’s ruling would appear to bring those actions to a stop.

The Pennsylvania legislature passed Act 192 late last year.

http://fox43.com/2015/06/25/commonwealth-court-strikes-down-act-192-which-allowed-lawsuits-over-gun-ordinances/
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 29 Mar, 2018 11:00 pm
@Real Music,
Real Music wrote:
The Greedy Gun Lobby

Protecting civil rights is hardly greed.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Thu 29 Mar, 2018 11:12 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Protecting civil rights is hardly greed.


Taking those rights requires power, when that happens the country is as good as dead.
hightor
 
  2  
Fri 30 Mar, 2018 07:34 am
@coldjoint,
Taking those rights requires power, when that happens the country is as good as dead.

What are you whining about now? It's better than being worse than dead.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 30 Mar, 2018 07:41 am
@hightor,
Liberals think that violations of our civil rights can be justified.

Voting for Republicans helps to preserve our civil rights.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Fri 30 Mar, 2018 10:55 am
@hightor,
Quote:
What are you whining about now?


No one is whining, claiming your civil rights is not whining it is the law laid out in our Constitution. Those wishing to take those rights away are the whiners.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  2  
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 08:02 pm
By Guest Columnist
By Rusty Munn

Mar 2, 2018
Quote:
I'm a gun owner, but the NRA doesn't speak for me: Guest opinion

I am a rural person and have owned guns for more than 60 years. I was a licensed hunting guide and outfitter and I value my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. However, the debate about guns has become bizarre, in large part due to the National Rifle Association. Common sense gun owners have to speak up. We must find ways to keep guns out of the hands of those most likely to commit violence.

The debate has been hijacked by the NRA, an organization whose success has been based on stirring up paranoid fears and controversy - often by supporting a string of myths:

Myth 1: The government is trying to take our guns away. Not true. Recent Supreme Court decisions (District of Columbia vs. Heller, McDonald vs. Chicago) affirm an individual's right to own a firearm for self-defense.

Myth 2: Because of our frontier history, all Americans are good with guns. Not true. The population of the United States has more than doubled since 1950 and most of those new people are from urban areas. Gone are the days when most young people lived a rural lifestyle and grew up hunting. Today a young person's only experience with guns is likely from a video game.

Myth 3a: This one is widespread. I call it the Hollywood myth, in which a bad guy is vanquished by a good guy with a gun. It seems everyone wants to be John Wayne. Fact: John Wayne wasn't really John Wayne. He was Marion Morrison, an actor. In real life, even well-trained police personnel have difficulties making the correct decision on when to use deadly force. Most people don't have the training, judgment or instincts to make the right decision in a split second, chaotic situation.

Myth 3b: The way to stop school shootings is to arm teachers. Read 3a and add the fact that many teachers do not want to carry a gun.

Myth 4: The NRA speaks for all gun owners. Not true. The NRA doesn't speak for me. The NRA wants license -- the ability to do what they want when they want no matter the effect on others and society. Freedom requires responsibility for your actions. License does not.

In the early 1980s, the NRA opposed outlawing Teflon-coated bullets known as "cop killers." These bullets are not for sporting use or self-defense. They're for killing a person wearing a bulletproof vest. Today, the NRA opposes banning someone on the terrorist no-fly list from passing a background check. The NRA also opposes bans on bump stocks and assault weapons.

We have a violence problem in America. Guns aren't the reason for the problem, but ready access to guns by people who would commit violence makes the problem worse. Gun owners and all citizens should work to find common sense approaches to keeping guns away from the mentally ill, felons, people with convictions for domestic abuse and people on the no-fly list.

The second amendment does not confer unlimited rights. It states: "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The founders acknowledged the need for regulation.

It is up to us, as a society, to craft common sense regulations. First steps should include making assault weapons with huge magazines illegal. These are weapons of war not self-defense or for sporting use.

We should close the gun show/personal sale loophole on background checks and upgrade the process to better ensure the mentally ill, stalkers, felons, people on the no-fly list or who have convictions for domestic abuse cannot pass them. We need a system that uses modern technology to track who has passed a current background check and issues cards stating that fact. The card could be valid for a number of years and be amended if the person commits an act that disqualifies him or her.

Prospective gun buyers also should be required to show evidence they've taken a gun safety and proficiency course, or they could be required to pass a gun-safety test.

Violence is a cancer in our society and there are many things we must do to address it. One step is to attempt to keep guns out of the hands of those who would do violence. If that inconveniences me, I'm willing to put up with that. Regulations are coming -- most likely state by state since Congress is toothless and hasn't acted.

It makes sense for gun owners to be involved in the development of those regulations. If we gun owners don't get out in front of this, we won't like the results.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2018/03/im_a_gun_owner_but_the_nra_doe.html
oralloy
 
  -1  
Sat 31 Mar, 2018 08:55 pm
@Real Music,
Rusty Munn wrote:
I value my 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

It's funny the way Freedom Haters always lie and say they support the rights that they want to abolish.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Common sense gun owners have to speak up.

It never fails that whenever someone either supports fascism or opposes civil rights, they claim common sense.


Rusty Munn wrote:
The debate has been hijacked by the NRA,

As if being a participant in a debate was hijacking it.

Liberals define a "debate" as an event where no one is allowed to oppose what they say.


Rusty Munn wrote:
the NRA, an organization whose success has been based on stirring up paranoid fears and controversy - often by supporting a string of myths:
Myth 1: The government is trying to take our guns away. Not true. Recent Supreme Court decisions (District of Columbia vs. Heller, McDonald vs. Chicago) affirm an individual's right to own a firearm for self-defense.

That's the truth not a myth. The Freedom Haters continually push to violate the Second Amendment despite this ruling, they openly spout falsehoods about how the ruling is contrary to legal history, and they openly call for the Second Amendment to be repealed.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Myth 2: Because of our frontier history, all Americans are good with guns. Not true. The population of the United States has more than doubled since 1950 and most of those new people are from urban areas. Gone are the days when most young people lived a rural lifestyle and grew up hunting. Today a young person's only experience with guns is likely from a video game.

No such myth. The Freedom Hater is attacking a straw man.

No one claims that Americans are naturally good with guns without requiring training and practice.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Myth 3a: This one is widespread. I call it the Hollywood myth, in which a bad guy is vanquished by a good guy with a gun.

I guess we shouldn't arm police officers then.

If having a good guy show up with a gun isn't the answer, don't call the police when you need help confronting a criminal.


Rusty Munn wrote:
In real life, even well-trained police personnel have difficulties making the correct decision on when to use deadly force. Most people don't have the training, judgment or instincts to make the right decision in a split second, chaotic situation.

It's actually pretty easy to tell when a criminal is violently attacking you.

Nothing wrong with training people however.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Myth 3b: The way to stop school shootings is to arm teachers. Read 3a and add the fact that many teachers do not want to carry a gun.

Some teachers do want to carry a gun.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Myth 4: The NRA speaks for all gun owners.

No such myth. The Freedom Hater is attacking another straw man.


Rusty Munn wrote:
In the early 1980s, the NRA opposed outlawing Teflon-coated bullets known as "cop killers." These bullets are not for sporting use or self-defense.

The Freedom Hater is lying.

a) The NRA not only did not oppose outlawing armor-piercing handgun bullets, they actually wrote the legislation outlawing them.

b) Coating a bullet with Teflon does not make it an armor-piercing bullet.

c) Freedom Haters call any type of bullet a cop killer when they are trying to outlaw it. It's a meaningless term. If it means anything at all, it means "whichever type of bullet the Freedom Haters are currently trying to ban".

d) Armor piercing bullets are quite useful for self defense, if the person who is attacking you is wearing armor.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Today, the NRA opposes banning someone on the terrorist no-fly list from passing a background check.

And rightly so. That list has no due process whatsoever.


Rusty Munn wrote:
The NRA also opposes bans on bump stocks

The Freedom Hater is lying again.


Rusty Munn wrote:
The NRA also opposes bans on assault weapons.

And rightly so. Such bans are outrageously unconstitutional.


Rusty Munn wrote:
The second amendment does not confer unlimited rights.

The Freedom Hater is attacking another straw man.


Rusty Munn wrote:
"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The founders acknowledged the need for regulation.

The term "well regulated militia" was used to refer to a militia that had trained to the point where they could fight as a single coherent unit instead of as a bunch of random individuals.


Rusty Munn wrote:
Regulations are coming -- most likely state by state since Congress is toothless and hasn't acted.
It makes sense for gun owners to be involved in the development of those regulations. If we gun owners don't get out in front of this, we won't like the results.

That's exactly what the NRA does. They are gun owners who get involved with the development of regulations in order to prevent results that they will not like.
0 Replies
 
 

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