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Canadians want Fox News Now!

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 10:38 pm
Naw JTT, I'll just refer you to a couple of thousand posts (estimated) here on A2K where the liberal community accuses this person or that person of racism and uses politically correct language to condemn them. I am as entitled to my opinion as is the rabid rabbit up there or Joe who or any who see things differently.

We who rebel against the intellectual dishonesty of political correctness can think more than one-dimensionally and see various interpretations for the same set of phrases or words. We look to the intent of the words and do not automatically assign 'racist' or any other 'ist' or 'ic' to the person who tells a truth whether or not it involves people who are different races or different anything.

But as anecdotal support for my opinion, just look at the immediate judgment of racism by several on this thread just in the last few pages. It wasn't the conservatives who raised this issue, now was it? It isn't even related to the thread. So which group is demonstrating here that they are more focused (obsessed?) with this subject.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 10:47 pm
JTT wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
(But then I said previously--was it in this thread?--that in my opinion liberals overall are more racist than conservatives overall because it is liberals who are so focused on race.


I'll ask, but the likelihood that you'll come up with stats to back up your point, Foxfyre, is about as strong as Ms JustWonders doing the same.

Could you provide some stats that bolster your opinion, please?


JTT - your quest is Mission Impossible.
God love ya for trying though.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:22 pm
Eason Jordan lied. He then tried to say his remarks were taken out of context.

The only problem is there's a video tape of his remarks. He won't release it. It will prove he lied.

He just resigned as Chief News Executive of CNN.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=492860
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:25 pm
What follows is a mere Op-Ed piece, not real reportage. It reflects a widely held sentiment, is written persuasively, with conviction and authority, and is laden with incontravertable factual references. I'm sure some in this discussion take issue with the premis set forth. I think it might be interestin' to see those particular folks specifically address and directly rebut the assertions and conclusions.

Quote:
White Liberal Racism and Ethnic Minorities

Written by Bob Chandra
Tuesday, December 14, 2004


In Fahrenheit 451, Ray Bradbury described a world in which firefighters burned books. In the guise of heroes coming to the rescue, they committed the most dastardly deeds. The people you would least expect were committing the crimes and therefore they were never opposed. This fictional account helps us understand how the "Party of Diversity" - the Democratic Party - is engaging in the most egregious racism in recent memory - and is getting away with it. Alarmingly, their bigotry is getting worse and most disturbingly, they have not been called to account. Many do not believe liberals are capable of racism, and therefore they turn a blind eye as the "firefighters burn the books," or in this case- utter vile racist epithets towards minorities.


Thinking Back


One aspect of the Democratic Party that always appealed to me was its support of diversity. Liberals didn't merely tolerate diversity; they celebrated it. What has jarred me from this dream was witnessing the Democratic Party's treatment of the occasional minority conservative who strived for higher office.


A Shot Across the Bow: Clarence Thomas


The Clarence Thomas nomination was the most brutal public lynching of a political nominee, before or since. A respected black judge and a Yale graduate who rose from poverty, Thomas was an intellectual rebel whose independent-mindedness offended the white liberal establishment. As many remember, on being nominated to the Supreme Court, Democrats launched an investigation meant to humiliate Thomas and cow him into withdrawing his nomination. A "show trial" was orchestrated and witnesses were paraded to tell a television audience that Thomas committed lewd acts would make the Starr Report seem tame. The Senate Committee found no evidence and dismissed the fraudulent charges. But the damage was done. And the message was sent by Democrats to the minority community: Cross us at your own peril. It is worth noting that Democrats subjected no white Republican nominee before or since to such incivility or hostility.


Redux: Condoleeza Rice and Al Gonzalez


In the 21st century, one would think that America ought to be ready for a highly capable African-American woman serving as Secretary of State. But there is an organized opposition that resorts to racist characterizations that depend on age-old stereotypes, dredges up phony charges in order to slander, and foments hatred towards minority nominees. This new racism has come from Liberal America, as well as from elected officials. It is loud, fearless, and militant.

Some examples? Liberal cartoonist Ted Rall labeled Rice a "House N*****", Liberal cartoonist Pat Oliphant depicted Rice as a parrot with extremely large lips. The mocking of minorities for physical appearance is a despicable practice that is being revived in liberal circles. And a liberal talk show host, John Sylvester, laughingly labeled Rice an "Aunt Jemima." This is what passes for humor amongst white liberal racists.

Given the dramatic shift of the Latino vote to President Bush in 2004, liberal pressure groups, led by People for the American Way, are preparing an unprecedented public relations attack on the Latino nominee for Attorney General, Albert Gonzalez. This is "Clarence Thomas Redux" for the Latino community. Time will tell how effective it is this time around. Clearly, this hostility towards minority conservatives is not isolated, but indicative of a mentality in liberal America.


Liberal Racism Stems from Paternalism

Political paternalism colors everything Democrats do with minorities. White liberals see themselves as the "big brother" to the minority "child" who needs special assistance. Correspondingly, Democrats seek to take care of ethnic communities through government aid programs. Since the ethnic community is perceived as akin to a dependent child, liberals tend to believe that minorities cannot fend for themselves (if they could, why would such programs be necessary?) But this embrace quickly becomes a stranglehold. So long as minorities express their agenda in liberal ideology, in terms of grievances, and seek government remedies of those grievances, everything is fine. The moment minorities express their point of view in terms of individual achievement, their status as Americans first, or in terms of independence and self-reliance - there's a problem; the bond of paternalism is broken.

Intellectual freedom practiced by minorities breaks the bond of paternalism that the Democratic Party has used to keep them in tow. The public lynchings by liberals of minority conservatives are meant to ensure that the public views the independent or conservative minority figure with scorn, ex-communicating them from their ethnic community. This perhaps explains why liberals are convinced that Colin Powell, Condi Rice, and Albert Gonzalez are "token figures." In their heart of hearts, many liberals believe that minorities cannot be trusted with power.

Racism must be given No Quarter


White liberals have been brutal in their condemnation of conservative minorities. Considering the power that white liberals wield in the media, academia, and politics, it is daunting to think that if you dare to stand up for your principles, you will be subject to a uniquely harrowing campaign of character assassination. And much of society will excuse the bigotry of Democrats, because liberals have cultivated the perception that they are the champions of minorities. After all, "firefighters" don't burn books.


Racism, however, must be given no quarter. White liberal racists such as Pat Oliphant and Ted Rall must be assailed for their hateful, racial stereotyping. Democrat Harry Reid must be required to explain his singling out of Clarence Thomas for criticism and for questioning his intelligence. Conservative minorities are going to have an uphill battle and we should use any and every avenue to make our voices heard. The disturbing, unapologetic strain of racism in liberal circles is becoming more prevalent with every passing day. It will not abate without a fight.


The Minority Struggle for Intellectual Freedom means confronting the Racism of White Liberals

Despite the painful ordeal that left him physically and psychologically exhausted, Clarence Thomas's response to his liberal assailants illustrates the nobility of this cause:


"It pains me deeply -- more deeply than any of you can imagine -- to be perceived by so many members of my race as doing them harm -- I come here today not in anger or to anger. Nor have I come to defend my views, but rather to assert my right to think for myself, to refuse to have my ideas assigned to me as though I was an intellectual slave because I'm black. I come to state that I am a man, free to think for myself and do as I please."


Minorities like Clarence Thomas have suffered immensely so that we could choose our own path. The battle against racism is now against the bigoted propaganda of liberals like Pat Oliphant. There is also the larger struggle against the paternalistic view that liberals hold towards minorities. At the end of the day, we must hold accountable those who claim to represent diversity.


In short, it's time to reveal the "firefighters" for the arsonists they are.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:28 pm
JTT wrote:
JTT wrote:
JustWonders wrote:
You mean the CNN that's headed by Eason Jordan who recently said that United States soldiers are targeting journalists in Iraq? That CNN?


Yup, that's the one, Ms JustWonders.

I'm just gonna go back and check that first posting of yours. I coulda sworn you said you were a journalist. I'll get back to you after I check.

Have you located those stats I have repeatedly asked for?



Found it, Ms JustWonders. Yup, you suggest that you are indeed a journalist.

"The anti-American ways of the Liberal cabal in Ottawa is frustrating for Canadian writers filing stories to CFP, including yours truly."

But it's back to Journalism 101 for you young lady. The point of journalism, [as has been pointed out in this thread a number of times, the latest, or at least one of the best, was by Lola] is to pursue the truth, NOT avoid it. That means that when a lead is found, that lead is pursued, subject of course to some constraints.

That this lead may in some way affect your own personal beliefs is not really germane. That is the fundamental point that you and other Fox "reporters" so often seem to miss. Your journalism is bent on shifting the story away from the story.

The Fox Tangential Network - We head off on tangents to make it difficult to impossible for you to decide.


JTT - go back to the very first page on this thread and click on the title. That will take you to the source of the article. Please stop insisting that I am something I am not.

Your constant demanding of 'stats' is rude. If you take exception with anything printed in the original article, I suggest you forward your complaints and demands to the author.

I realize now that the left on this board watches far more Fox News than I do. No wonder the other five "news" networks are failing.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:31 pm
Hmm, trial by internet? A videotape would seem to be the best possible defense if one was innocent. How do you know a videotape exists JW?

I'm not sure I would want my trial to be on the internet, but as long the big media groups won't police themselves, I guess somebody has to.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:38 pm
Lol - the ridiculousness of the PC hysteria has now, I note, reached a point where, for some, merely saying that someone is not politically correct appears to be an insurmountable defence against any and all criticisisms - no matter how indefensible the material they have authored is.

Fox is now calling me rabid for suggesting she remove her blinkers - when, on the one hand, she condemns what she sees as liberal racism (suggesting she disapproves of racism) - and on the other is impelled by - as far as I can see nothing but a desire to defend this writer (since I would be very surprised if Foxfyre IS racist - and I would also frankly be very surprised if you would actually defend this woman in a cooler moment, Fox) - to misread her words. Really, I do not think there is much room for misinterpretation and I am amazed by how you are seeing this.

But - whatever, see it as you wish.

This is all getting a little hysterical.

Not sure what this woman's writing has to do with Fox media, btw.

I think they have plenty to answer for without answering for her.

Is there a connection?
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:41 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Hmm, trial by internet? A videotape would seem to be the best possible defense if one was innocent. How do you know a videotape exists JW?

I'm not sure I would want my trial to be on the internet, but as long the big media groups won't police themselves, I guess somebody has to.


Foxfyre - Remember, though, that it was the Powerline blog that busted Dan Rather and memogate. The thing I like about the more credible blogs (Powerline, Little Green Footballs, etc.) is that if they post something in error, they'll be aware of it within minutes, if not seconds. There are good ones on both the right and left that I read regularly and
I've been following the Eason Jordan brouhaha at Davos since it broke.

Actually, Barney Frank was one of the first to make the call for Jordan to either back up his remarks about our soldiers murdering journalists or retract them. David Gergen was also at the meeting.

http://sisypheanmusings.blogspot.com/2005/02/eason-jordon-wef-video_110754253214888238.html

http://www.forumblog.org/blog/2005/01/do_us_troops_ta.html
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Feb, 2005 11:56 pm
I might add that - when making accusations of racist PC hysteria, Fox - the left here were, as far as I have read, accusing Coombs of racist opinions. You accused, as far as I can tell, ALL progressive folk of racism. Has anyone accused all republicans of racism here?

Timber's op ed piece appears to be making the same kind of blanket accusation.

Hmmmmmmmm - accusations of racism made without thought and as a knee jerk PC thing? Hmmmmmmmm.....
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:06 am
Actually, Powerline, LGF, and the others merely picked up on the exposure of the CBS Document Debacle which had begun on Freerepublic before the 60 Minutes Wednesday piece had finished airin'. Credit for breakin' the story rightly goes to a Freeper by the handle of BuckHead, an Atlanta attorney.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:09 am
No Rabbit, it is my opinion that those who focus on racism, who are quick to accuse others of racism, who read into innocent metaphors racist intent are themselves racist. They see other races as 'different' and/or as 'victims' and in need of rescue, protection, defense rather than as ordinary people who have a particular complexion or facial type. It is my opinion that liberals or more guilty of this kind of racism than are conservatives. It is not a blanket condemnation and if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.'

(I don't accept that the liberals, at least those in this country, are the progressive ones either. Smile)

And yes, the fact that Coombs is not "PC" in her article and neither is she critical of or supportive of any paricular people based on race considerations, and she is not afraid to tell it like it is without suggestion that it is race that provides either advantage or disadvantage says to me the woman probably is a realist, perhaps a gifted sociologist/historian, but is not racist.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:13 am
JW absolutely I am aware that it was the internet that brought down Rather and he needed to be brought down. I guess I'm feeling mixed emotions here. I've seen the internet spread vicious lies about people too and a number of the numbnuts out there are going to believe them. Then of course there are those who are posting like crazy to set the record straight and maybe it all balances out.

I did say that big media isn't policing itself, so I guess the internet is as good an entity as any to do it. At least it puts the power into the hands of the people.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:27 am
Exactly, Fox. It's going to change reporting the news as we've always known it. Eason Jordan should have realized that.

Honestly, I just wonder if the "blogs" had been around during Watergate, would they have been able to effect a different outcome.

I understand there will always be the less credible bloggers out there, but they are pretty easy to spot and write off for what they are. The good ones are here to stay, so MSM watch out.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:36 am
Ok Timber - I shall respond.

I not the article utters various epithets - and makes a metaphor.

Thomas.

Is there evidence that Democratic opposition to Thomas was based on race, not his opinions?

What evidence is there that the opposition to his nomination was greater than to any white conservative?

I would need more objective data on that one before commenting.

The Rice etc thing was debated at great length here. I had not previously heard the "house nigger" thing - and it is, indeed, despicable.

At least here, a lot of the drama over Rice appeared to be because "liberals" did not hail the nomination of person whose policies were largely regarded as extremely negative, (I must say, I have a more open mind re Rice as I watch her performance as Secrecretary of State - she is certainly an impressive figure on the world stage - time will tell as far as I am concerned) just because she is female and black.

The other caricatures mentioned I was less clear about re their racism - the big lips - dammit, she HAS big lips! And the parrot thing - well, she is seen as an apparatchik who will parrot Bush's line - it is what people around the powerful do - but the point, as I see it, was that Powell WAS vocal, sometimes, in opposition.

It is an interesting discussion this - it seems to me that we have conservatives coming damn close to saying we can't make fun of rice, cos she is a black female! It is the business of satirists to satirise. Shrugs. I always felt you Americans were more able to judge re the racism of some of the Rice cartoons - I will be interested to hear. The Aunt Jemimah one is the iffiest one of the others mentioned - but, do a few cartoonists a racist liberal avalanche make?


Gonzales.

I think your columnist is drawing a waaaaay long bow here, Timber!!!!!

I couldn't give much of a smeg, normally, re your Repub/Dem stuff - they look almost the same to me - I just dislike Bush's policies - nor do I know, or care, which way black people or hispanics vote particularly in the US - I don't think they are betraying me and such if they vote repub - but Gonzales, to me, is the man who helped change the torture rules forthe USA - which I consider an appalling step. I do not think he deserves the post he has achieved. Good on anyone who opposes such a man. You would have to work damn hard to make me believe opposition to him was racist!!!
*********


Where is the evidence that special programs that recognise the disadvantage experienced by some groups in society equals paternalism? That is simply a judgment call - and your columnist has decided to see it a particular way. Racism? Hmmmmmm.......



I can share the view that some programs may be paternalistic - (Australia has made many devastating mistakes in that regard - I do not know enough about programs in your country to copmment, really) given that I understand the stats still show disadvantage. (Show me if I am wrong)
And do it well, cos I know a lot about early intervention - and - if you have persistently disadvantaged groups you'll have to work hard to make me think that some programs are not bloody well warranted for them - who-ever the hell thay are.

The Thomas quote - ""It pains me deeply -- more deeply than any of you can imagine -- to be perceived by so many members of my race as doing them harm "

The columnist here appears to be doing exactly what he accuses progressives of doing - he assumes that "liberals" have made the members of Thoams' race perceive that he has done them harm? Is he not saying that these people are unable to judge for themselves and are the pawns of the white liberal establishment?

From here, I am unable to comment on whether minorities get a harder time than white conservatives - I will leave that for you Americans to fight about.

But - unless there is clear evidence of that - (and I guees that will just come down to a slanging match - since I sssume it is a matter of perception?) - then this seems just a piece of the normal partisan stuff. I accept that I don't really understand the background to some of this stuff by the way.

IF that is happening - it is bad.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:43 am
By not understanding the background, I mean that , while generally the more progressive parties generally gather the migrant and black vote (the latter is so small it hardly matters - except in a few rural areas), this does not seem to engender anything but party self-recrimination if it goes down in an election.

And - the majority of Aboriginal members of parliament that I know of, happen to have been Liberals (ie conservatives). The non-Anglo members of parliament are mainly on the left - but some very prominent ones have been on the right. Shrugs...

It doesn't seem to arouse any comment either way (though I think some more right wing Aboriginal people may have been given a hard time by their own people - especially with our current government for good reasons - but then all Aboriginal public figures get a hard time from their own people!!!), but certainly not by the left.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 12:52 am
Foxfyre wrote:
No Rabbit, it is my opinion that those who focus on racism, who are quick to accuse others of racism, who read into innocent metaphors racist intent are themselves racist. They see other races as 'different' and/or as 'victims' and in need of rescue, protection, defense rather than as ordinary people who have a particular complexion or facial type. It is my opinion that liberals or more guilty of this kind of racism than are conservatives. It is not a blanket condemnation and if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it.'

(I don't accept that the liberals, at least those in this country, are the progressive ones either. Smile)

And yes, the fact that Coombs is not "PC" in her article and neither is she critical of or supportive of any paricular people based on race considerations, and she is not afraid to tell it like it is without suggestion that it is race that provides either advantage or disadvantage says to me the woman probably is a realist, perhaps a gifted sociologist/historian, but is not racist.


Lol - if accusations of racism are such a problem to you Fox, better have a chat to some of your more rabid friends! I have been accused of racism more than once by your side.

Shrugs.

If one is to make the accusation, one had better have good reason - not do it because you are angry, or to score cheap political points, or because you are losing an argument, is all.

I do not think any of these apply to criticisms of Coomb.

However, we shall not agree on this one, ever, I see.

C'est la vie.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 01:31 am
However, I do note, with some bemusement, that it seems that your response to what you consider the untowardness of those who " focus on racism, who are quick to accuse others of racism, who read into innocent metaphors racist intent (and) are themselves racist." is to accuse an entire political spectrum of racism.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 01:34 am
Quote:
JTT - go back to the very first page on this thread and click on the title. That will take you to the source of the article. Please stop insisting that I am something I am not.

Your constant demanding of 'stats' is rude. If you take exception with anything printed in the original article, I suggest you forward your complaints and demands to the author.


Thank you, JW. I think it might have been beneficial if this had been cleared up a wee bit before page 39.

But nevertheless, I withdraw my remarks relating to the stats and apologise for making them.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 01:34 am
And I think Dlowan did not read my post at all. Smile
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 01:59 am
timber <nods appreciatively and with respect toward JTT>


Oh, dlowan - very well done for the most part - I don't agree with you at all, but you certainly raised some good questions - readily answerable questions, but good none the less. I don't really wanna get into a back-and-forth on that here-and-now - mebbe on a new thread in the near future might be better; the excercize could get pretty involved. Thanks for a good and honest effort though.
0 Replies
 
 

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