9 and 10 year-olds charged with felony for drawings

Gitmo is the place for these predelinquents (yes, it IS a real word!) - they threaten the very foundations of democratic capitalism!!

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Or is it capitalist democracy? Either way it's under threat.

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The story says the kids were the same size and didn't get into specifics of bullying. When I was in jr high school, a bully hit me in the mouth. I had a jagged broken tooth, which cut his hand. He went to the teacher and told her I bit him. Who do you think got in trouble? You have to be sure of the facts before putting someone in handcuffs.

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IF you put a child in handcuffs at all, edgar .....

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Sorry. THat was rhetoric. I would not put a child in cuffs at all.

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I knew that already, edgar. Smile

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msolga wrote:

But handcuff's, paula?

I don't think bullying should be tolerated, either, the handcuffing 11 year olds is rather off.

Ten year old kids are not stupid. They know inflicting harm on another kid is wrong. They know what it's like to feel pain.

I would not want my daughter to have to be in fear of being assaulted twice from the same child that has proved themselves to be harmful.

Now if her school told me the only way they can guarantee her safety is if the police get involved then I would do it.

A parents responsibilty is to keep their child out of harms way. I don't think the innocent child should have to suffer any more than they already have. It's tough cookies for the bully.

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Bullies should not be tolerated. But, cuffs are a bit extreme.

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This question is for anyone. If one of your co-workers walked up to you at worked and punched you in the face and chipped a tooth, would you call the police and have them arrested?

If a ten year old had the exact same thing happen to them at school, why is it outlandish for them to have the same rights?

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Children are not the same as adults, in that they are still in formative stages. They need to be taught, disciplined, nurtured, whatever, in hope they will not grow up to assault others.

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edgarblythe wrote:

"The parents (of the other girl) contacted law enforcement," she said. "Occasionally parents will do that, and they have a right to."

"It was a little bit more than a shoving match," Sumner said. "It came to blows being thrown."

When my sister was 13 she was beat up by a girl her age and size, there was no weapon involved and it was after school. Her eyes were so blackened and swollen she couldn't see out of them, blood all over her face, scrapes all over her body. Kid's, young kid's can be brutal.
My mom called the police, they said "Oh, we know who that girl is, we'll go have a talk with her." She wasn't arrested, and she didn't change a bit either.
Edgar, I agree kid's should be taught, but if their parents aren't teaching them properly, there going to end up in the school of hard knocks.

Better now than later.

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Anybody other than myself here ever see a copy of the little book they used to use in Germany to teach kids about bad habits and what can happen on account of them, i.e. "Struwelpeter"?

For instance, thumb sucking...

"Konrad!" sprach die Frau Mamma,
"Ich geh aus und du bleibst da.
Sei hübsch ordentlich und fromm.
Bis nach Hause ich wieder komm'
Und vor allem, Konrad, hör!
Lutsche nicht am Daumen mehr;
Denn der Schneider mit der Scher'
Kommt sonst ganz geschwind daher,
Und die Daumen schneidet er
Ab, als ob Papier es wär'."

http://www.buecherquelle.com/hoffmanh/struwwel/struww52.jpg

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There's one other sort of a moral lesson I sometimes take the time to explain to kids, and it goes like this:

Some of the sayings and truisms you hear in life, particularly as children, can be wrong, or might have been right 200 or 2000 years ago and have simply reached a statute of limitations of some sort and, in some cases, blindly adhering to these kinds of things can be dangerous.

The most major such thing I know of is the idea that "Only the good die young". When I was a kid, there were a number of kids in the same area who heard that and figured "Damn, I've got it knocked; I'm an A$$HOLE, that means I'm gonna live a hell of a long time!!!"

Now, in reality, A$$HOLES are PARTICULARLY susceptible to dying young. A number of the biggest A$$HOLES in my town never made it past being teenagers and, yeah, you could say that there were complicated stories involved in all such cases but the basic bottom line reality is that if they hadn't been A$$HOLES, they'd be alive now.

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Uh-huh.

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"But handcuffs, paula?

I don't think bullying should be tolerated, either, but handcuffing 11 year olds is rather off."

That's what my post quote by paula should have said. Handcuff's? Embarrassed

God, you feel SO stupid when you see your own silly errors in print. Why don't you see them while you're typing?

OK, proceed with the debate!

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paulaj wrote:

I have a ten year old daughter that is happy-go-lucky, somewhat meek, never get's in trouble and is an honor student. If a bully targeted her, (bullies do target the quiet, non-aggresive kids), and she was beaten, I'd call the police too. Especially if that's what it would take to have the bully removed from school.

Well, I'm glad that teachers here are taught educational sciences ('paedogogics') at univerity, that we have social worker at school and that children under 14 can't be prosecuted.

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gungasnake wrote:

Anybody other than myself here ever see a copy of the little book they used to use in Germany to teach kids about bad habits and what can happen on account of them, i.e. "Struwelpeter"?

"Struwwelpeter reflects its creation at a time when the political state in Germany was becoming centralized, social status was becoming more dependent on individual merit than on inherited position, and public education was developing" - my dear gunga, this book was published more than 150 years ago.

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WhoodaThunk wrote:

...I say finally because they had previously been part of a unit in an actual psychiatric hospital. The school bused them there and paid for their instruction. The hospital closed, so they were all dumped into our regular classrooms the next year. Because of privacy issues, the teachers were not even informed of their former status. We got to figure it out for ourselves.

Harking back to an earlier post by WhoodaThunk:
It IS a problem when "disturbed" children are integrated into regular schools without the proper support.
In the 1980s in my state (Victoria) in Oz, there was (in what was seen as) a progressive movement to integrate students with disabilities into mainstream schools. The problem was, when this integration DID happen, instead of the smaller classes & additional support needed, these de-institutionalized students were simply added to classes, which have continued to grow progressively larger to this day. What was intended as a progressive development was destroyed by simultaneous cost cutting/rationalization measures by the state government at the same time as the special schools were closed down.
Sometimes these integration students had a a person employed to assist them, sometimes they didn't. The integration aids often had no training in the field of special needs. Most students were physically disabled, though some (not so easily categorized in terms of requiring extra support) were intellectually disabled, a number with varying degrees of social & emotional special needs . The end result was a helluva huge task for the classroom teacher & the school administration! So many different needs at one time! behavioral and academic. Often there was insufficient support & guidance to the special needs students themselves. Some of the integration students causing classroom disruption through their violent behavior when simply in the wrong environment, with insufficient support. Often their families were in no position to be supportive to the students or the school. And as for their teachers: they certainly had a challenge on their hands, balancing all their professional responsibilities!

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... so I'm wondering: are these disruptive students in troubled, under-resourced schools who simply are not able to cope with the problems presented to them? Calling on the police when they aren't able to manage? If so, that's very sad & an indictment of the state or whatever regional authorities have responsibility for them.

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So this wasn't a special education school those boys attended?

Quote:

Ocala boys arrested for violent drawings to get counseling

Sun-Sentinel

February 3, 2005, 7:24 AM EST

OCALA -- Two boys accused of threatening a classmate by making violent drawings of stick figures will avoid felony prosecution by joining a counseling program, officials said.

The boys, ages 9 and 10, are set to take part in a five- to seven-month intervention plan that includes anti-aggression and anti-bullying counseling, said Robin Arnold, a Marion County supervisor for the state attorney's office.

The program requires visits with counselors three times a week during the first phase, with visits decreasing in the second part of the program to once a week. Charges will be dropped if the boys complete the program.

The boys' parents, who also must visit with counselors, agreed to the deal, the state attorney's office said Wednesday.

The boys were arrested Jan. 25 and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person, a second-degree felony.

The special education students used pencil and red crayon to draw simple stick figure scenes on scrap paper that showed a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, Ocala police said. One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and ``holding knives pointed through'' his body, police said. The figures were identified by written names or initials.

Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened, police said.

The father of the 10-year-old said Wednesday he was relieved to see the criminal case against his son resolved. The man said his son has attention deficit disorder, and he believed the drawing was never meant as a serious threat.

``The best outcome for my son was making sure the criminal stuff was taken care of,'' he said. A woman who identified herself as the mother of the 9-year-old defendant declined comment Wednesday.

With the criminal charges dropped, the boys are free to return to school, school district spokesman Kevin Christian said.

Source

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9 and 10 year-olds charged with felony for drawings

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