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Wed 26 Jan, 2005 05:47 am
Two Florida boys charged with a felony for violent stick figure drawings
Associated Press
OCALA, Fla. -- Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs.
The 9- and 10-year-old boys were arrested Monday and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person. They were also suspended from school.
One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and "holding knives pointed through" his body, according to a police report. The figures were identified by written names or initials.
Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened.
The boys' parents said they thought the children should be punished by the school and families, not the legal system.
I agree with the parents. Hell, I use to draw stuff like that in school of kids who use to actually abused me. It was just my way of venting. The schools are carrying this harmless crap way too far, in my opinion!
I agree with Montana, that the schools and the parents need to deal with this. What we don't know, is whether these kids have emotional problems, or were simply letting off some steam. These children need to be tested for emotional disorders, not charged with felonies.
Columbine was a terrible act, but I think that since then people have overreacted. I think that grownups need to gather some perspective.
I hate to think what the reaction of these kids will be, when they are involved with the legal system.
This seems a rather over the top reaction to what appear to be a couple of schoolboy bullies. I doubt that the drawings were all that they directed at the child they victimized. But police, arrests & handcuffing!
Intimidation & bullying should be taken very seriously. Some kids' lives are made utterly miserable by it. I've seen it in schools I've worked in & often the tormentors get away with it for years. However, there are far more appropriate ways of dealing with the culprits by the school & the parents.
I'll bet they'll never do that again! I wonder what other activities these boy's have been up to, but haven't been caught at yet.
I have a 10 year old daughter, if two kids did that to her, I would have them permanently removed from that school.
No child deserves to have their life threatened, anywhere.
I don't think this was a harmless act but I also don't think that a 10 year old fully understand death and the consequences of their actions. Being charged with a felony doesn't mean crap to them. They just know they got in trouble.
I think the school and the parents should carry out punishment and have these children evaluated by a psychiatrist. Just in case. Better now then after they actually do kill someone.
I read this too this morning and at first I thought how horrible the children are – but then I thought again. I remember kids doing not so much different from when I was in grade school. They were mad at another friend and would do drawings and even write hateful things, but never pursued any further than that. It is almost a way to express their anger without actually doing anything physical.
I agree with the parents here. I think a felony charge is a bit much. They were not actually threatening the other child. They did not state they were going to go through with this. I understand everyone is a bit uptight about such things after so many violent school shootings and similar, but you need to look at each incident separately. I do think the students should be punished. They should be suspended from school and also counseled on seriousness of what they did. But criminal action? Did anything think to question the boys, have they had previous problems with violence, is this the first time either has been in trouble? You really need to put some things in perspective.
I agree with everyone so far and I am also one of the ones who would draw things like that.
I understand that there is a big fear in our society right now of school violence. It seemed a trend not too long ago for children ( under 14yrs old) to shoot and kill other kids for teasing, bullying and such. So the discomfort the teachers, family and even law felt with thier drawings is understandable...
FELONY CHARGES? Umm.. ok.. can we NOT waste our law enforcement budget on that ?!
These kids obviously have problems with SOMEONE.
Charging them with a felony, putting them in jail and ignoring them isnt going to solve it. Injail, they will just learn how to not get caught at something else.
Why is there not a counceling system in place for issues like that? Why is there not an option for the parents to get involved? Why is it now just a legal offence?
Obviously somoene has directed some funds twords this problem in schools or the teacher wouldnt have called the cops.Calling the cops on a drawing isnt normal practice. The teacher would have called the office. That leads me to believe that this teacher was acting on instruction. And if someone took the time to talk to and instruct the teachers to do this, they could have just as easily created a plan of action that included councilors and parents instead of law enforcement.
I agree with kristie. A child that young doesnt see death as DEATH, they still perceive it as a punishment of some kind. ( OHhhh where is Squinney! She knows about this. ;-) ) SO to punish them like a possible killer is wrong IMO.
I mean, switch the tables, make the artist 30, would the charges still stand? Hmm.. no . That would be percieved as artistic expression...exactly as it is for a 10 yr old.
I doubt that we have the full story in the newspaper article. I'm positive there'd be more to it than simply threatening drawings to involve the police. It sounds like someone was at the end of their tether & didn't know what to do with the situation, whatever the whole situation was. However, I still think that arresting the two boys was inappropriate. The problem is: what IS appropriate punishment for bullying at that age? What would get the message that this type of bullying is unacceptable through to these boys?
Felony charges are pretty extreme, but would you want these kids sitting next to yours down at the schoolhouse? Somebody overreacted, but those kids need a little guidance.
But, Gosh, that might involve actual parenting, wouldn't it? Fat chance there ...
msolga wrote:I doubt that we have the full story in the newspaper article. I'm positive there'd be more to it than simply threatening drawings to involve the police. It sounds like someone was at the end of their tether & didn't know what to do with the situation, whatever the whole situation was. However, I still think that arresting the two boys was inappropriate. The problem is: what IS appropriate punishment for bullying at that age? What would get the message that this type of bullying is unacceptable through to these boys?
I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was nothing more to it. This is what the schools have become and I'd be willing to bet that the children that drew these were not bullies at all, but the victim of bullies. I only say this because I was bullied in school and I use to draw stuff like that simply to vent. I don't have a violent bone in my body, so it was just a way for me to vent my anger. If I had been arrested for those stupid drawings, then I would heve ended up being much much more angry.
msolga wrote:I doubt that we have the full story in the newspaper article. I'm positive there'd be more to it than simply threatening drawings to involve the police. It sounds like someone was at the end of their tether & didn't know what to do with the situation, whatever the whole situation was. However, I still think that arresting the two boys was inappropriate. The problem is: what IS appropriate punishment for bullying at that age? What would get the message that this type of bullying is unacceptable through to these boys?
BINGO!
you hit the nail on the head.
what should happen is that the boys should be sent home and their fathers should whip their little wise asses...of course then the same police would come and arrest the fathers.....
when I was young I wasn't as big as a minute and was an easy target for bullies so my monstrous cousins would just periodically grab these bullies and beat the goddam hell out of them. Then Pete, after beating my tormentor would slap the **** out of me and tell me I was an embarrassment to him for allowing someone to whip my ass. No police, no parents, and eventually I overcame my fear of these bullies and defended myself against them and that was the end of it. I'm still scared of Pete though.
msolga wrote:I doubt that we have the full story in the newspaper article. I'm positive there'd be more to it than simply threatening drawings to involve the police.
Quote:[...]
Police said the special education students drew a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung.
Ocala Police Sgt. Russ Kern said the pictures were drawn for the sole purpose of intimidating and scaring the victim.
The boy depicted in the drawings told his teacher, who took the sketches and contacted the school dean, and then the police were called. The boys were also suspended from school.
Source
I don't know more neither, but regarding that this happened at a school for special education, I thing, the teacher and school dean should get some additional special education as well.
Walter, after reading that quote, it does sound like these kids are the bullies. It's hard to tell sometimes. If these kids are the bullies and this is not a first time thing, then I think they should be expelled from the school. I truly think they should have schools specifically for bullies. These bullies need some type of boot camp where they learn respect. They should not be allowed to wander the schools and abuse innocent kids. kids don't have a choice in whether they go to school or not and they should never have to be victims.
Well, seems that special education is different here, then.
Walter Hinteler wrote:Well, seems that special education is different here, then.
In America, special education students (severe behavior included) are mandated to be in "the least restrictive environment." That means in the classroom with your kid who may or may not be the model for the next artistically-impaled stick figure. And then eventually the "artist" may move on up to using his mama's butcher knife.
Of course the schools will be at fault for not seeing that coming.
Remember back when he drew that picture?? No win, no win.
This article brought to mind a friend who had worked in Liberia for the Peace Corps during the 60's. A few years ago, one of the friends she made while working there sent her some drawings made by teenage boys who had never known anything but war and death. The drawings showed unborn babies being brutally cut out of their mother's wombs and many other horrible methods of killing.
These kids in Ocala aren't traumatized to that extent, but it is vital to understand the whole story, including what kind of parenting the two boys have had. Hand cuffs and jail seem outrageously inappropriate. As many here have admitted (me too), drawings of serious harm were done at a time when we had been abused and felt totally defenseless. There was never a question of acting upon the pictures we drew.
Testing for serious mental problems definitely should be done. They might be in need of a much more controlled environment that a public school if there is any chance that they would act out the message in their drawings.
Edited.
Montana wrote:Walter, after reading that quote, it does sound like these kids are the bullies. It's hard to tell sometimes. If these kids are the bullies and this is not a first time thing, then I think they should be expelled from the school. I truly think they should have schools specifically for bullies. These bullies need some type of boot camp where they learn respect. They should not be allowed to wander the schools and abuse innocent kids. kids don't have a choice in whether they go to school or not and they should never have to be victims.
I totally agree.. but I also wanted to point out that bullies learn from bullies.
Kids are not born mean, aggressive or hateful. They are taught that. And a specific school for children who are showing these tendencies is a great idea, how much will it help when they return home in the evening to the same environment that taught them these behaviors in the first place?
As Whoodathunk said :
Quote:But, Gosh, that might involve actual parenting, wouldn't it? Fat chance there ...
>sigh<
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