Why does the Bible Exist?

Here is the problem. You are a typical White American with typical White American beliefs. You the same beliefs as most other White Americans. If you were a typical African-American or a typical Hispanic American or a typical Haitian American your beliefs would be quite different.

Here is the problem.

White Americans who read the Bible are quite different than African-Americans who read the Bible. African Americans are likely to be in favor of gun control. And Hispanic Americans are far more likely to be in favor of immigration. African Americans and Hispanic Americans use the Bible to justify their beliefs.

Your beliefs are far more shaped by your race, your social class and where you live than they are shaped by the Bible.

If the Bible had an impact on your beliefs, than you would be far more likely to agree with Hispanic Americans and African Americans and Haitian Americans and people who didn't have your relatively comfortable economic situation and social status.

I haven't even started to talk about the differences between your beliefs and that of Christians in other countries. I had a unique experience to talk with Palestinian Christians when I was visiting the Middle East. They are quite upset with White American Christians... in fact they doubt if you understand the Bible at all.

Your beliefs are far more shaped by the fact you are a White American, then they are shaped by the Bible. In that way, the Bible doesn't have very much of an effect at all except to make people more arrogant that their beliefs are correct and that everyone else is deceived.

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Quote:

I think it had something to do with the Midianites tempting the Israelites towards their god.

Genocide sound about right to you as a response to attempting to convert others?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

We're all shaped from the environment we're brought up in. If you want to demean middle class caucasian america that's your prerogative. You wish to create the fence or maybe you're just acknowledging the fence? I do know that everything takes time. Nothing happens NOW. I'm still trying to figure out if we aren't in some way brainwashed.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
I think it had something to do with the Midianites tempting the Israelites towards their god.

Genocide sound about right to you as a response to attempting to convert others?

Everything in context. At that time in place maybe it was mission critical. Today all we're doing is hashin' things out.

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@jerlands,

I am not demeaning "middle class Caucasion America" (although I could).

I am refuting your claim that the Bible has any meaningful effect on anything, since people are "shaped from the environment we're brought up in" whether we read the Bible at all.

My suggestion is that the what is written in the Bible hasn't had much of an impact on you at all... you would have reached the beliefs you have whether the Bible existed or not.

The Bible is just a prop.

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@maxdancona,

Well that's your opinion but I beg to differ because I happen to know myself better than you might. You simply can't imagine.

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@jerlands,

This is a little troubling.

You are saying that genocide; the wholesale killing of men, women and children with no trial and no chance to argue their value as a human being, is sometimes justified. I disagree with you on this.

I would rather go to Hell then to follow a God who gives orders to murder children.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

This is a little troubling.

You are saying that genocide; the wholesale killing of men, women and children with no trial and no chance to argue their value as a human being, is sometimes justified. I disagree with you on this.

I would rather go to Hell then to follow a God who gives orders to murder children.

They were put on trial. As far as I can discern "God" puts everything on trial.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

At that time in place maybe it was mission critical.

Because you're defending genocide, I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on your comment here.

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Quote:

They were put on trial.

Really? And what do you imagine the charge was? Who represented the accused? What do you believe babies did to deserve being executed en masse?

This is where I usually make the point that religion has a negative effect on one's ability to judge in a reasonable way. You understand that genocide is immoral in the extreme. However, when you believe that your god of choice has sanctioned it, you give it the thumbs up.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
At that time in place maybe it was mission critical.

Because you're defending genocide, I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on your comment here.

How can I elaborate when I'm not even sure what we're talking about here. You are trying to be specific about this particular event but I don't see it that way. Species go extinct in evolution, tribes vanish etc., etc., etc., who for what I don't have grounds.

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@jerlands,

Geez Jerland...

You can explain away the passages of the Bible that say we should help immigrants, not judge people, be peacemakers, help the poor, and turn the other cheek ...

... but you can't explain away the killing of children?

If I were you, that genocide passage that I would explain away. That one makes God look like an evil butcher.

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@jerlands,

Glennn is talking to the story in Numbers 31. It is a pretty brutal passage of genocide.

Quote:

1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”
3So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.
7They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.
13Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.
15“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16“They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Do you want to take a guess why little boys were killed, but little girls were kept as long as they were virgins... and what do you think life was like for those little girls who these men saved for themselves.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

The Midianites have a history I don't fully understand because of names and associations with Abraham. I really think this question is left to scholars who have greater insight than I. Sorta sounds like neanderthal to me though

1 Reply

@Glennn,

You said: ‘The voice inside Moses' head told him to command his followers to kill innocent men, women, and children, and rape young girls’ And because of this, it means God himself did not instruct him to do so.)

The president/chief/King in command ordered atom bombs to be dropped on men, women, and children. Why?
You see, such lives can be taken and not be morally wrong to do so.
Sad? yes of course.

It is unfortunate ppl label the God of Israel as a ‘bad guy’....just as people can and do label the United States as a ‘bad guy’ because they had to make tough executive decisions.
These are usually ‘arguments by outage’(no logical or foundational basis)

And about the rape comment....what?! Where do you get such an idea? At least quote the scripture you are interpreting?
http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/22-25.htm
The God of Israel frowns upon rape, and instructed Israel to put ppl who commit this crime to death.

Comments like these, as well as reading other above comments about how the God of Israel promotes slavery tell me how ppl can and do grossly misinterpret Gods word, for whatever reason.(just as jehovsh witness misinterpret what’s truly going on)

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@jerlands,

Quote:

I really think this question is left to scholars who have greater insight than I. Sorta sounds like neanderthal to me though

If you leave reading the Bible to "scholars" than the Bible really is no use to you. Come on can read it yourself. It is pretty clear what happened... God told his followers to murder men women and children... except for virgin girls that the men could take for themselves.

God gave these girls for the Israelite men to have sex with. Your Neanderthal dodge is comically wrong. Are you claiming that God told the Israelites to have sex with Neanderthals?

1 Reply

@Helloandgoodbye,

Quote:

The God of Israel frowns upon rape, and instructed Israel to put ppl who commit this crime to death.

This is not exactly true. If you are going to argue in favor of the Bible, you should at least read it first. Under the law of Moses, a girl who is raped was supposed to marry her rapist provided she was not already promised to another man.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
I really think this question is left to scholars who have greater insight than I. Sorta sounds like neanderthal to me though

If you leave reading the Bible to "scholars" than the Bible really is no use to you. Come on can read it yourself. It is pretty clear what happened... God told his followers to murder men women and children... except for virgin girls that the men could take for themselves.

God gave these girls for the Israelite men to have sex with. Your Neanderthal dodge is comically wrong. Are you claiming that God told the Israelites to have sex with Neanderthals?

Ok.. I don't know.. 1.) God works in mysterious ways 2.) for everything there is a season?

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Quote:

Ok.. I don't know.. 1.) God works in mysterious ways 2.) for everything there is a season?

That makes it easy to justify anything. When God told people to crash planes into the World Trade Center... was that Him working in mysterious ways?

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Quote:

How can I elaborate when I'm not even sure what we're talking about here.

We're talking about the events covered in the 31st chapter of the book of Numbers. Max has provided you with the text. Now, in what way was it "mission critical"?

Quote:

I really think this question is left to scholars who have greater insight than I.

Do you feel that you are unqualifed to determine that the genocidal nature of the activity of Moses was just that--genocidal--when the record shows that that is exactly what it was?

0 Replies

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