Why does the Bible Exist?

@maxdancona,

here is a link to get u started with Romans 13
http://romans13truth.com/Home.aspx

One thing you do not want to do with anyone’s words, including Gods word, is take things out of context.
In other words, treat it like a puzzle, do not just gather ONE piece and draw a conclusion of what u think u see.....gather ALL the pieces u can...and then u will see the truth of God’s word. Isaiah 28:10 ‘here a little, there a little’

It seems has made it this way so that ppl seeking truth will find it, and those seeking misinformation to ‘tickle their ears’ will find it also ya know?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

As for slavery, The same principle applies. Do not take one or two verses (like puzzle pieces) and draw any conclusion you wish to.
God’s word is clear. Slavery is not ‘good’ or ideal.
Heck, he brought Israel out of slavery. And considers ppl caught up in Sinful ways of life ‘slaves to sin’ not being able to break free Sad

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@Helloandgoodbye,

Helloandgoodbye wrote:

here is a link to get u started with Romans 13
http://romans13truth.com/Home.aspx

One thing you do not want to do with anyone’s words, including Gods word, is take things out of context.
In other words, treat it like a puzzle, do not just gather ONE piece and draw a conclusion of what u think u see.....gather ALL the pieces u can...and then u will see the truth of God’s word. Isaiah 28:10 ‘here a little, there a little’

It seems has made it this way so that ppl seeking truth will find it, and those seeking misinformation to ‘tickle their ears’ will find it also ya know?

I actually think a real good point was brought up. My consideration is the law and examining the passage in the eyes of law. so what's the law? I think I highlighted it earlier but 1.) love the lord 2.) do unto others. So if you find yourself in an environment where there isn't law what do you do?

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@Helloandgoodbye,

Helloandgoodbye wrote:

As for slavery, The same principle applies. Do not take one or two verses (like puzzle pieces) and draw any conclusion you wish to.
God’s word is clear. Slavery is not ‘good’ or ideal.
Heck, he brought Israel out of slavery. And considers ppl caught up in Sinful ways of life ‘slaves to sin’ not being able to break free

Thank you Helloandgoodbye, you are making my point exactly.

You don't like slavery... so you are taking one or two verses (like puzzle pieces) to draw the conclusion you wish to. Other people, who did like slavery used the same Bible to justify slavery. (Incidentally there are far more than one or two verses on Slavery, there are several passages in both the Old and New Testament supporting the practice of slavery including Paul's exhortation for slaves to happily obey harsh masters).

That is the point I am making. You can make the Bible say whatever you want.

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Quote:

I don't know that democracy is actually a good thing. That is.. I don't know all men should have an equal voice.

The Bible is often used to stamp out democracy. If one political group claims to have the bible on their side... they can justify controlling people who disagree with them. This still happens today.

This, of course, isn't unique to the Bible... other Holy Books are used in the same way whether it is the Koran or the Bahgdavida. Tyrants have often used Holy Books as a weapon to push their beliefs, or their interests, on other people.

In any case what the Bible says is irrelevant (or what the Koran says, or what the Bahgdavida says). It is what the person who is interpreting the Holy Book believes that matters. The Bible is just a prop.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

So if you find yourself in an environment where there isn't law what do you do?

Prey.

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@maxdancona,

jerlands wrote:

I don't know that democracy is actually a good thing. That is.. I don't know all men should have an equal voice.

maxdancona wrote:

The Bible is often used to stamp out democracy. If one political group claims to have the bible on their side... they can justify controlling people who disagree with them. This still happens today.

I know many examples of people using religion against others (the spanish inquisition.) In fact, the entire cultural migration as we know it today seems to me to have been headed by religious notions. I don't know however if that gives us any fact for determining of the validity of the Bible or why it was written.

maxdancona wrote:

This, of course, isn't unique to the Bible... other Holy Books are used in the same way whether it is the Koran or the Bahgdavida. Tyrants have often used Holy Books as a weapon to push their beliefs, or their interests, on other people.

Yes but we don't have anything to compare this type of behavior with. What state existed in Northern Europe before Christianity was introduced? Or anywhere else for that matter? We can't see how it would have evolved had there not been the introduction.

maxdancona wrote:

In any case what the Bible says is irrelevant (or what the Koran says, or what the Bahgdavida says). It is what the person who is interpreting the Holy Book believes that matters. The Bible is just a prop.

I do agree that the bible is a prop but what it's supporting is the notion of "God" and a notion of "Law." We want to deny "God" but it's not really easy to do unless you ignore a bunch of stuff. If you demand proof of "God" then you might have to wait until this is manifest. I think it's the Kabbalists who believe we are all part of "God" and only until we come together in mind will we gain better insight.

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@laughoutlood,

laughoutlood wrote:

Quote:
So if you find yourself in an environment where there isn't law what do you do?

Prey.

Ya wonder why the Israelites rebelled against Rome? They were totally out manned. I mean.. didn't they know Rome? It really makes no sense to me. It might be the event that caused the diaspora?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

That is the point I am making. You can make the Bible say whatever you want.

One of the things I think interesting in the Bible is not much is written in stone. In fact... the only thing written in stone are the commandments and Moses broke the first set because it was just too extensive for the people.
The commandments seem though to be at the heart of the old testament and I believe also the new testament.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

I know many examples of people using religion against others (the spanish inquisition.) In fact, the entire cultural migration as we know it today seems to me to have been headed by religious notions. I don't know however if that gives us any fact for determining of the validity of the Bible or why it was written.

Can you give me an example where religious people (Christians or otherwise) didn't use their religion against other people?

Throughout history, people have used Christianity and other religions to justify some pretty horrific acts. And, even today, the main impact of Christianity on modern society is for one group of people to tell another group of people what to do.

Quote:

Yes but we don't have anything to compare this type of behavior with. What state existed in Northern Europe before Christianity was introduced? Or anywhere else for that matter? We can't see how it would have evolved had there not been the introduction.

We have several examples of this happening. North America had zero Christianity until the the 1500s. When the Christians came, they brought disease, slavery and greed.

There were fully functioning societies with millions of people that had never heard of Christianity. Now they are gone thanks to the genocide that was committed by people who were acting based on their understanding of the Bible.

The Bible kind of sucked for Native Americans starting in the 16th century. Christianity literally meant slavery and death. Similar stories happened other places like Africa and Australia.

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@maxdancona,

I definitely disagree the Bible is open to interpretation, (to the degree you are proposing) just as when ppl study the world around us.
Two conclusions should be drawn after collecting the puzzle pieces on these 2 subjects:
1. There is an intelligent designer(when studying the world)
2. Slavery is terrible(when studying biblical teachings)

When I hear different conclusions being drawn, I start to question motives. I question the condition of s persons heart.

But just as it has been revealed, some angels actually believe they can overthrow God. Why do they believe this? What pieces of the puzzle have they collected? Why do they see possible victory? Why is their ‘interpretation’ Clearly Wrong. (The heart is the answer)

You say at one moment that the Bible is the problem, and then seem to switch saying ppl are the problem. You are definitely stating your opinions, as you did with Romans 13(which you clearly interpreted wrongly).
Seems you want to believe the Bible is not Gods word.(I hope you just have been deceived by such misinformation you are presenting, and not being willingfully ignorant, like some angelic beings do)
Many ppl do this to try to justify their way of living as ‘good’

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@Helloandgoodbye,

You are wrong Helloandgoodbye. And, here is the problem. You are a 21st century American (I am assuming you are American... I am sure you are from a modern Western Culture). You are reading the Bible as an 21st century American... and you are wrongly assuming that the way you interpret the Bible is correct.

Here is the question... If you brought the Bible to someone living in Australia 500 years ago, and had them read the Bible without your preconceptions, what would they think it says.

You are clearly wrong is that you say "slavery is terrible" in the Bible. There are multiple passages in the Bible that clearly say that slavery is acceptable (Exodus 21, Leviticus 25, Titus 2, Ephesians 6). There are zero passages saying that slavery should be ended, or that the practice is evil. And, for hundreds of years people accepted that the Bible allowed slavery, because it clearly did.

You are ignoring the passages based on your beliefs. Don't feel bad... everyone does this.

Of course I am against slavery too (I just disagree with the Bible on this). But slavery isn't the issue.

The hypocrisy of modern Christians is the fact that they completely ignore or explain away passages on "not resisting the evil man" and treating immigrants with respect. I don't think anyone follows the Bible... but if anything the Bible is about love and compassion and care. Modern Christians who talk the most about the Bible use it to promote hate and judgment of immigrants and poor people.

The behavior of modern Christians is proof that the Bible is useless in making people better and serves as a prop to justify whatever they want to do anyway.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

I see everything as evolutionary

Indeed. The Bible shows the evolution of the human concept of the source of all that is. It begins by depicting this source as an all powerful entity that got angry because its creation wasn't acting in accordance with its will. As a result, it decided to clean up its mistake by drowning everyone. This depiction exposes the alleged source as nothing more than a glorified version of the human ego; it gets angry like us, is jealous like us, is vengeful like us, and even places the blame for the failure of its own creation onto others, just like we did when we were young. So, the character of the god is a reflection of the character of the humans who described it.

Sometimes people attempt to the validate the legitimacy of the Bible by claiming it is the word of the god. And when asked to prove the existence of this god, they point to the Bible. Using two unconfirmed things to prove the validity of each other is an ego trick accepted by those who choose to remain unevolved in their concept of the source.

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@jerlands,

I'm not sure most people have really even read the Bible (or more than a few pages of it).

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0928/In-US-atheists-know-religion-better-than-believers.-Is-that-bad

Most people probably experience the Bible anecdotally through what other people tell them, which means that only a tiny portion of the actual book is involved in the religious experience. The effect on western civilization is more of a cultural experience which claims the same tagline "The Bible".

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Indeed. The Bible shows the evolution of the human concept of the source of all that is. It begins by depicting this source as an all powerful entity that got angry because its creation wasn't acting in accordance with its will. As a result, it decided to clean up its mistake by drowning everyone. This depiction exposes the alleged source as nothing more than a glorified version of the human ego; it gets angry like us, is jealous like us, is vengeful like us, and even places the blame for the failure of its own creation onto others, just like we did when we were young. So, the character of the god is a reflection of the character of the humans who described it.

Yes, but what does this mean "God's intent to destroy man." To me it illustrates a communication we have with "God" and possibly an interdependence. Think of "God" as law and law being something we HAVE to follow. Why do we have to follow this god's law? That's the question. This is a very powerful statement and maybe the reason man pursues research in an attempt to understand.

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

I'm not sure most people have really even read the Bible (or more than a few pages of it).

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/0928/In-US-atheists-know-religion-better-than-believers.-Is-that-bad

Most people probably experience the Bible anecdotally through what other people tell them, which means that only a tiny portion of the actual book is involved in the religious experience. The effect on western civilization is more of a cultural experience which claims the same tagline "The Bible".

I think the only way to read the bible is in its original form.. so no.. I really only have a kind of reflection of it.

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@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

The Bible shows the evolution

Not cherry picking just want to make the point.
There are two stories of creation in the Bible.
Genesis Chapter 1
Genesis Chapter 2
I know how people try and use this but for whatever reason it had left me with a notion of before and after.

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@jerlands,

jerlands wrote:

I think the only way to read the bible is in its original form.

Does it even still exist in its original form? I know it's been translated and re-translated scores of times, maybe hundreds of times. Even the original bits would have been in a different language from a different time. I'm not convinced even the scholarly and studiously unbiased translations could be accurate. Many words and phrases from ancient times probably carry colloquial meaning which translators could miss.

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@jerlands,

You misunderstand my meaning. I am saying that humans are the source of the stories found in the Bible. As such, humans are responsible for the description of the nature of the god they believe in. The voice inside Moses' head told him to command his followers to kill innocent men, women, and children, and to rape young girls. If that is not enough to convince you that it was not the voice of a divine being he was listening to, then I don't know what else to tell you except that I guess you had to be there.

What I mean is that, while the god is said to have the power to part the Red Sea, turn someone into a pillar of salt, make the sun stand still in the sky for some hours, and other such things, when it came to picking up all the people whom it found to be an abomination in its sight and tossing them thirty-seven and a half miles off the shore of the nearest ocean, it didn't do it. Instead, it opted to tell Moses to put swords into the hands of his horde and instruct them to push them into the bellies of pregnant women and young children.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

jerlands wrote:
I think the only way to read the bible is in its original form.

Does it even still exist in its original form? I know it's been translated and re-translated scores of times, maybe hundreds of times. Even the original bits would have been in a different language from a different time. I'm not convinced even the scholarly and studiously unbiased translations could be accurate. Many words and phrases from ancient times probably carry colloquial meaning which translators could miss.

I think the dead sea scrolls verified accuracy to around 400 bc. The beginning of the texts I also believe started during the first exile (6th century bc.)

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