Why does the Bible Exist?

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

You misunderstand my meaning. I am saying that humans are the source of the stories found in the Bible. As such, humans are responsible for the description of the nature of the god they believe in. The voice inside Moses' head told him to command his followers to kill innocent men, women, and children, and to rape young girls. If that is not enough to convince you that it was not the voice of a divine being he was listening to, then I don't know what else to tell you except that I guess you had to be there.

What I mean is that, while the god is said to have the power to part the Red Sea, turn someone into a pillar of salt, make the sun stand still in the sky for some hours, and other such things, when it came to picking up all the people whom it found to be an abomination in its sight and tossing them thirty-seven and a half miles off the shore of the nearest ocean, it didn't do it. Instead, it opted to tell Moses to put swords into the hands of his horde and instruct them to push them into the bellies of pregnant women and young children.

I know there is a difference between literal translation and the symbolic translation. I'm not certain of all your citations so would you please reference them for me.

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Moses and the Midianites . . .

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

You misunderstand my meaning. I am saying that humans are the source of the stories found in the Bible.

I think that's apparent but the question might be if the book is truly inspired and then what is inspiration anyway?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Someone in Australia 500 years ago *Should*have read the Bible with a clear understanding that it teaches there is no such thing as a good person, and that humanity requires someone to pay their debt.(a saviour)
Just the same conclusion I have made, and you should make.
Just as everyone *should* conclude the world around us requires a creator/intelligent designer.

Let’s build on the fact that you misinterpreted Romans 13.
Now you have moved into Exidus 21 for example.....that is yet again wrong.

Exodus 21:7 http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-7.htm

Now, what does it mean to ‘sell’ a son or daughter in that culture?
It means basically ‘hiring them out’ for cheap labour, that’s all. Usually because of poor ppl who made bad financial choices.
Such slaves had to be treated very well, having days off, and were to be released after 6 years(unless they chose to remain a servant whom they served)
http://biblehub.com/exodus/21-5.htm

It was just a part of ancient culture, for economic purposes (which of course do not apply to us). For that matter, I worked as a young child and contributed to my families financial needs (quite similar)
On top of that, such laws were part of the Old Testament Covenant(such laws only applied to Israel, not even its neighbours. (Ie. sacrificing sheep)Now, we have a new covenant. http://biblehub.com/hebrews/8-13.htm

Anyone promoting any Old Testament law should be promoting sheep sacrifices you see?
This is a major major major part of the puzzle you are missing(or were missing now that I’ve revealed it to you).
This is how I know you have interpretated the scriptures you cited wrongly. Like a jehovah witness coming to the wrong conclusion about Jesus being a created being.
It tells me you, like a JW, have been deceived, and that you have not sought the truth to the subject, for whatever reason.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Moses and the Midianites . . .

Yeh, apparently he totally annihilated that population. What was it that led to such an action?

1 Reply

@jerlands,

jerlands wrote:

Glennn wrote:

You misunderstand my meaning. I am saying that humans are the source of the stories found in the Bible.

I think that's apparent but the question might be if the book is truly inspired and then what is inspiration anyway?

You can't dismiss the power this book has. I think we can question it though without some big repercussion.

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@Helloandgoodbye,

Nonsense Helloandgoodbye.

First of all... when you are explaining the Bible (as you are) you have already lost. If the Bible really can speak for itself, then your explanations; about why slavery in the Old Testament that clearly talks about buying slaves, and about taking slaves as spoils of war, isn't really slavery.

You are explaining the Bible based on your 21st century, probably White, probably middle class values. If you think that someone 200 years ago, or 500 years ago or 800 years ago would accept your explanations... you are wrong. We know you are wrong because we can see how people explained the bible 200 years ago.

You have the right to explain the Bible in any way you want. And if you want to say that anyone who disagrees with your explanations is "deceived", there isn't much I can do about that. (And, to be perfectly honest... I think anyone who disagrees with me is deceived too).

But I see that Christians are judgmental, cruel people who want to deport immigrants, criticize poor people and protect their right to shoot evil doers (all of which clearly contradict the Bible). It is hypocrisy.

Tell me this.... how has your reading of the Bible changed your beliefs in any way about poverty, or immigration, or justice, or racism, or opposing war? These are areas where the Bible could actually do some good if people didn't simply ignore them. If the Bible has really changed your mind from a typical American mindset in any significant way, you will at least have my respect. Or do you think the Bible, written in the Middle East thousands of years ago reflects a 21st century conservative mindset.

I have seen no real evidence that the Bible has any ability to change what people would naturally believe even if the Bible didn't exist. People (including you) simply use it to justify what they would have believed anyway.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

What was it that led to such an action?

I want you to say it.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

You can't dismiss the power this book has.

Yes, I can. It has no power over me.

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The Jewish part of the Bible exists mainly because the Yahweh cultists needed it to consolidate power in Yehud Medinata when they were allowed to return there by Cyrus the Great, emperor of the Achaemenid Empire. The Christian part of the Bible exists mainly because the leaders of the nascent church needed it to consolidate power over the followers of that religion.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

The Jewish part of the Bible exists mainly because the Yahweh cultists needed it to consolidate power in Yehud Medinata when they were allowed to return there by Cyrus the Great, emperor of the Achaemenid Empire. The Christian part of the Bible exists mainly because the leaders of the nascent church needed it to consolidate power over the followers of that religion.

Ok.. that's one view but it doesn't explain the lasting effect it's had.

1 Reply

@jerlands,

Yes, the Bible has had a lasting effect.

Since the Christian Bible was finalized about 1700 years ago, we have had several genocides committed by Christian nations using the Bible to justify their actions. We have had wars where both sides have been Christian. We have had slavery committed by Christians. Christianity has been used to subjugate cultures and steal lands.

I don't think what was written in the Bible is to blame for any of this. The Bible is a symbol that can be used by those in power to justify their actions... really any other book would have served the same purpose.

There is no doubt that the Bible has had a role in the history of the past 1700 years. I am a bit surprised that anyone thinks this is anything to be proud of.

Right now the primary use of the Bible is to let middle-class White people feel good about themselves in spite of their wealth and disregard for others.

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Glennn wrote:

Quote:
What was it that led to such an action?

I want you to say it.

I think it had something to do with the Midianites tempting the Israelites towards their god.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Yes, the Bible has had a lasting effect.

Since the Christian Bible was finalized about 1700 years ago, we have had several genocides committed by Christian nations using the Bible to justify their actions. We have had wars where both sides have been Christian. We have had slavery committed by Christians. Christianity has been used to subjugate cultures and steal lands.

I don't think what was written in the Bible is to blame for any of this. The Bible is a symbol that can be used by those in power to justify their actions... really any other book would have served the same purpose.

There is no doubt that the Bible has had a role in the history of the past 1700 years. I am a bit surprised that anyone thinks this is anything to be proud of.

Right now the primary use of the Bible is to let middle-class White people feel good about themselves in spite of their wealth and disregard for others.

Understanding anything requires full context. The bible is a passage, I don't believe it to be the end of our understanding of "God" but a means. As for what man does and why he does it.. I don't know. 1.) God works in mysterious ways 2.) for everything there is a season?

1 Reply

@jerlands,

What impact has the Bible had for you?

I am going to assume that you are middle-class, American and White (I might be wrong... and please correct me and I will ... but I think I am correct).

I am also state, based on your Whiteness, American citizenship and your social class that

- You are against amnesty for illegal immigrants.
- You don't believe in government run social welfare programs.
- You think that people should have guns to protect themselves.
- You aren't concerned about how Black people feel about their treatment with police.
- You believe that military action in Iraq and Afghanistan are justified and don't think much about the deaths being caused by drone strikes.

All of these cover topics that are covered in the Bible (you might explain them away, but they are there).

Here is the question.... if you think the same way that the middle-class White Americans around you think... how can you say that the Bible has had any real impact on what you believe?

You are just using the Bible to justify what someone in your position would believe anyway because it is to your advantage.

Or are there ways that the Bible has made you believe something that you wouldn't otherwise believe based on your social circumstances.

(.... if you tell me you have actually sold all your possessions and given the money to the poor, I am going to feel really stupid.)

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

What impact has the Bible had for you?

I am going to assume that you are middle-class, American and White (I might be wrong... and please correct me and I will ... but I think I am correct).

I am also state, based on your Whiteness, and your social class that

- You are against amnesty for illegal immigrants.
- You don't believe in government run social welfare programs.
- You think that people should have guns to protect themselves.
- You aren't concerned about how Black people feel about their treatment with police.

All of these cover topics that are covered in the Bible (you might explain them away, but they are there).

Here is the question.... if you think the same way that the middle-class White Americans around you think... how can you say that the Bible has had any real impact on what you believe?

You are just using the Bible to justify what someone in your position would believe anyway because it is to your advantage.

Or are there ways that the Bible has made you believe something that you wouldn't otherwise believe based on your social circumstances.

(.... if you tell me you have actually sold all your possessions and given the money to the poor, I am going to feel really stupid.)

You're right.. I don't support all things.. I believe man is equal under the law and we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

I can't justify other people's behavior, I can only control my own. You can put me on trial but that isn't what I'm hoping for out of this discussion.

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@jerlands,

jerlands wrote:

You're right.. I don't support all things.. I believe man is equal under the law and we should do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

I can't justify other people's behavior, I can only control my own. You can put me on trial but that isn't what I'm hoping for out of this discussion.

Actually the part about being put on trial might be inevitable in any discussion.

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@jerlands,

Quote:

I can't justify other people's behavior, I can only control my own. You can put me on trial but that isn't what I'm hoping for out of this discussion.

I am not putting you on trial. I am putting the Bible on trial.

If the Bible has an powerful effect (other than justifying some pretty horrific things like slavery and killing) then tell me what it is.

I don't see people who state that they use the Bible as being any better than people who don't use the Bible... and in some cases they are quite a bit worse. So, please tell me how the Bible has made you different than a typical modern White American?

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

What impact has the Bible had for you?

- You are against amnesty for illegal immigrants.
- You don't believe in government run social welfare programs.
- You think that people should have guns to protect themselves.

Ok.. let's talk politics...
- You are against amnesty for illegal immigrants.

Everything is case by case. I believe in amnesty under certain circumstance.

- You don't believe in government run social welfare programs.

These systems are widely abused. There are people who have children only to gain support. And the abuse goes on and on. There does need to be ratification for aid programs to work as intended.

- You think that people should have guns to protect themselves.

I would like there not to be the need. Can we wipe out all guns in America... I don't think so.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

So, please tell me how the Bible has made you different than a typical modern White American?

Umm, well.. that might be hard to answer. I think Lincoln said something to the effect "a man who represents himself has a fool for a lawyer." But ya know.. we all cast some image of ourselves in everything we do.

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Why does the Bible Exist?

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