18
   

Trump's embassy move to Jerusalem 'self-destructive'

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 08:08 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
It will be interesting to see how it goes. I hope the resolution is signed by everyone but Israel and the US. We need to be taught a lesson diplomatically.

A bunch of anti-Semites signing a toothless resolution is going to teach us a lesson???
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 08:09 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Just curious to hear your response to this question. If I went to town and had sex with a woman, but first told her that I was German when in fact I was American, and she soon learned that I was American, should I go to jail for that?

I don't see why someone should go to jail for that.

I'll check in later tonight. The only time my local theater is showing Jumanji in 3D is their 10-to-midnight showing.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 08:36 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I say that this is untrue.

14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm
Quote:
As I said, they took the first opportunity that fate presented to them. This was that opportunity.

Yes, as I said, they used bribery. You see nothing wrong with using bribery to resurrect a 1000 + year old situation at the detriment of the modern native population. Nor do you see how bribery delegitimizes their effort to acquire someone else's home. I get that.

And here is a list of the Israeli Regime's violation of international law:

http://itisapartheid.org/Documents_pdf_etc/IsraelViolationsInternationalLaw.pdf
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 08:47 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
I don't see why someone should go to jail for that.

Neither do I. Such a thing would certainly indicate racism.

A court in Jerusalem has made international legal history by jailing Sabbar Kashur, a 30-year-old delivery man from East Jerusalem, for 18 months.
He was convicted of "rape by deception" following a criminal trial that has drawn criticism from across Israel.

The court heard accusations that Mr Kashur misled the woman, whose identity has not been disclosed, by introducing himself with the traditionally Jewish name during a chance encounter on a street in central Jerusalem in 2008.

After striking up a conversation, the two went into a top-floor room of a nearby office-block and engaged in a sexual encounter, after which Mr Kashur left before the woman had a chance to get dressed. It was only later that she discovered Mr Kashur's true racial background, lawyers said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7901025/Palestinian-jailed-for-rape-after-claiming-to-be-Jewish.html
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 11:39 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
14 Delegations in Favour of Resolution 2334 (2016) as United States Abstains

The Security Council reaffirmed this afternoon that Israel’s establishment of settlements in Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, had no legal validity, constituting a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the vision of two States living side-by-side in peace and security, within internationally recognized borders.

https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

The UN is infested with anti-Semites. Obama is an anti-Semite. Anti-Semites like falsely accusing Jews of imaginary crimes.

In reality Israel is only required to return to 1967 borders as part of an arrangement where the Palestinians agree to make peace with Israel.

The Palestinian refusal to make peace with Israel means that Israel has no obligation to return to 1967 borders and is free to do with the land as they wish.


Glennn wrote:
itisapartheid.org

An obvious neo-nazi website just from the title.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 20 Dec, 2017 11:41 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
He was convicted of "rape by deception" following a criminal trial that has drawn criticism from across Israel.

So in other words the Israeli people are speaking out against what they see as injustice. Good for them!
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 02:01 am
@revelette1,
It will be interesting.
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 08:06 am
@izzythepush,
U.N. set to vote today on Jerusalem amid claims of Trump bullying (The Guardian

Quote:
Donald Trump’s threat to cut U.S. funding to countries that oppose his decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital in a U.N. vote on Thursday has set the scene for confrontation with countries already bridling over the president’s approach.

Amid accusations of bullying and blackmail, the U.S. and Israel have continued their furious efforts to persuade countries to back Trump’s position, amid predictions that more than 150 of 193 countries in the general assembly could vote against the U.S.

Trump made his threat to cut U.S. funding on Wednesday as he gave his wholehearted support to his U.N. ambassador, Nikki Haley, who had sent members a letter warning that the U.S. would be “taking names” of those who opposed it.

The draft resolution reaffirms 10 security council resolutions on Jerusalem, dating back to 1967, including requirements that the city’s final status must be decided in direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians.

It also “demands that all states comply with security council resolutions regarding the holy city of Jerusalem, and not to recognize any actions or measures contrary to those resolutions.”

In an indication of the scale of defeat anticipated by Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he launched a pre-emptive attack denouncing the U.N. as a “house of lies” on Thursday morning.

Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 09:19 am
@revelette1,
Jerusalem bishop says international community must bring justice to city
Quote:
In the wake of US President Donald Trump's controversial decision to declare Jerusalem the capital of Israel, Evangelical Bishop Munib Younan calls for a diverse Jerusalem where the rights of all are respected.
[...]
First of all I would like to say: Jerusalem is also dear to us Christians. And we think that any change of the status quo will not bring peace to the area. On the contrary, you are touching the nerve of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Jerusalem must be a place for peace, justice and reconciliation. Secondly, we believe that the historic status quo for the holy places must be maintained and not changed. And thirdly, we, Muslims and Christians, believe that the custodianship of the holy places in Jerusalem are in the hands of His Majesty King Abdullah II of Jordan. Had Mr. Trump said West Jerusalem is the capital for Israel and East Jerusalem the capital for Palestine, things would have been normal. But once again he ignored the Palestinians.
[... ... ...]

Munib Younan is a Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land , and former (until this year) President of the Lutheran World Federation
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 09:30 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
The UN is infested with anti-Semites.

Sure . . .
Quote:
Obama is an anti-Semite.

Right . . .
Quote:
Anti-Semites like falsely accusing Jews of imaginary crimes.

Uh huh . . .
Quote:
The Palestinian refusal to make peace with Israel means that Israel has no obligation to return to 1967 borders and is free to do with the land as they wish.

Uh, no. That's a law that Zionists have made up. The actual, real-world law is covered in the Geneva Convention and plain old international law.
Quote:

An obvious neo-nazi website just from the title.

Call it what you will, but its assessment is quite accurate. Your answer to the facts concerning this issue is that anyone who states them is an anti-Semite. In your mind, anything and anyone not in agreement with the wishes and viewpoint of Zionism is anti-Semitic. And there's no talking to you about that.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 09:41 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
So in other words the Israeli people are speaking out against what they see as injustice. Good for them!

Here is where you demonstrate your unconditional bias when it comes to Israel in no uncertain terms. In a previous post you stated that you don't agree with someone being jailed for misrepresenting their race before engaging in sex with someone. But now that I've offered the same scenario with the exception that the Israelis are involved, your objectivity goes out the window. There's no talking to you.
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 10:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Thank you a very uplifting piece.

It is the sheer arrogance of the administration which makes them think they can just decide to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital and everyone should just respect their decision as though that decision will have no bearing on anything else in the region. It is utter folly and deserves the disrespect it is getting.

ehBeth
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 11:28 am
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRljKSfX4AI5zG8.jpg:large

35 abstentions

so disappointed in my government

I have advised my prime minister and have requested a stop on fund-raising emails from him and his party.
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 11:59 am
@ehBeth,
I am trying to decide if it passed.

Quote:
Vote and Majority Required

Article 27 of the UN Charter states that:

Each member of the Security Council shall have one vote.
Decisions of the Security Council on procedural matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members.

Decisions of the Security Council on all other matters shall be made by an affirmative vote of nine members including the concurring votes of the permanent members; provided that, in decisions under Chapter VI, and under paragraph 3 of Article 52, a party to a dispute shall abstain from voting.

The Right to Veto

The creators of the United Nations Charter conceived that five countries — China, France, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) [which was succeeded in 1990 by the Russian Federation], the United Kingdom and the United States —, because of their key roles in the establishment of the United Nations, would continue to play important roles in the maintenance of international peace and security. They were granted the special status of Permanent Member States at the Security Council, along with a special voting power known as the "right to veto". It was agreed by the drafters that if any one of the five permanent members cast a negative vote in the 15-member Security Council, the resolution or decision would not be approved.

All five permanent members have exercised the right of veto at one time or another. If a permanent member does not fully agree with a proposed resolution but does not wish to cast a veto, it may choose to abstain, thus allowing the resolution to be adopted if it obtains the required number of nine favorable votes.


source

The US has the power of the veto, but the US is a party of the dispute. Shouldn't we have abstained from voting? So what is the result of the resolution? 128 isn't bad for a vote against the US, regardless.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 12:04 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
The US has the power of the veto, but the US is a party of the dispute. So what is the result of the resolution? 128 isn't bad for a vote against the US, regardless.
The USA acts now as Russia and China do (and did).
revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 12:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Not sure what that means. I'll check in later to see if you explained.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 12:36 pm
@revelette1,
My understanding is that this was a "non-binding" resolution (as per BBC).
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 01:31 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Uh, no. That's a law that Zionists have made up.

That is incorrect. The fact that international law requires Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians to make peace with Israel was not made up by anyone. It is a quite real part of international law.


Glennn wrote:
The actual, real-world law is covered in the Geneva Convention and plain old international law.

Yes. And that law says that Arabs, Palestinians and Muslims are required to make peace with Israel.
0 Replies
 
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