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Trump's embassy move to Jerusalem 'self-destructive'

 
 
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izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 01:59 am
@edgarblythe,
The response is pretty strong. At the moment it's just going to be talk, but what they'll be discussing will be significant.

Quote:
The UN Security Council is to discuss the issue on Friday after eight of the 15 nations called for an emergency session. The Arab League is to meet on Saturday.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42261000

Trump might actually bring peace to the ME, uniting Shias and Sunnis, Arabs and Persians, Saudis and Iranians against Israel and Trumpton.

What's for certain is that security forces throughout the ME will be far less likely to pass information on to their American counterparts.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 06:17 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
What's for certain is that security forces throughout the ME will be far less likely to pass information on to their American counterparts.


President Plump has already seen to that. I doubt that any security agency in the world wants to tell the NSA or the CIA anything these days.
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 07:03 am
I only hope Trump's wrong decision does not bring about more bloodshed although I doubt, like many other hopes, it will be realized. You can bet your bottom dollar if a huge war breaks out on all and/or any sides over this, this administration will not take the rightful blame, nor will any of it's supporters. I am ashamed of my country.
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revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 08:23 am
Hamas leader calls for new 'intifada' amid Jerusalem fallout (USA Today)

Clashes break out in West Bank over Trump's speech (WP)

Courtesy of our US Instigator-in-Chief.

This is going to be bad.
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InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 09:58 am
@oralloy,
A Palestinian micro state would make official the Zionists' oppression of the Palestinian peoples, and would compel countries to isolate and punitively sanction Israel. Also, it would provoke violent reaction against Israel. Israel would never see the peace it desires.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 10:39 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
A Palestinian micro state would make official the Zionists' oppression of the Palestinian peoples,

The fact that the Palestinians won't have all the land that they wanted to get doesn't make them "oppressed".

How large is Monaco? Are they oppressed because of their size?


InfraBlue wrote:
and would compel countries to isolate and punitively sanction Israel.

Not when the reason why the Palestinians are confined to that tiny little micro state is because of their own refusal to make peace.

And not when Israel is still willing to offer the Palestinians more land just as soon as they make peace.

That's the beauty of Israel retaining control over Areas B and C even east of the Security Fence. The land would be given to the Palestinians in exchange for peace, if the Palestinians ever agreed to peace. But since the Palestinians will never agree to peace, the land will remain under Israeli control forever and the Palestinians will be left with Area A alone.


InfraBlue wrote:
Also, it would provoke violent reaction against Israel. Israel would never see the peace it desires.

It is easy enough to bomb the Palestinians into submission. Meanwhile Palestinian violence justifies Israel holding on to Areas B and C east of the Security Fence and confining the Palestinian micro state to Area A alone.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:11 am
@Setanta,
Tomorrow will be a flashpoint. Things tend to kick off after Friday prayers.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:20 am
@oralloy,
The Palestinians would be oppressed because the Zionists would refuse to recognize their rights in all of Palestine, i.e. Right of Return, which is happening now. A micro state imposed on the Palestinians by the Zionists would only make the oppression official.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:29 am
Jerusalem has indeed been treated as the capital of Israel for decades, albeit unofficially. It is because of this that the Trump recognition was made possible. The groundwork was already present, and so, all of which led up to this moment is evidence of the international community's moral bankruptcy when approaching the Palestinian plight. 
The Israeli government has been enforcing absolute and complete control over the Palestinian population in Jerusalem, just as it has done in other Palestinian cities and towns. Palestinian Jerusalemites only possess residency cards, which can be revoked at any point, Israel continuously demolishes homes in Palestinian neighbourhoods under the pretext of lacking house permits, and Palestinian youth are discriminatorily targeted by Israeli forces.
It is such Israeli policies, the same policies Palestinians have protested for years, that hushed Palestinian voices so Jerusalem can be presented as de facto Israeli.
Arab leaders ignoring Palestinian cries
What is even more distressing is the fact that this would not have been possible without the compromises made by Palestinian leadership. Palestinian politics have been marred with factional rivalry, security collaboration with Israeli intelligence at the expense of Palestinians, and a series of concessions in the form of agreements and treaties that have never encapsulated the fundamentals of Palestinian demands; justice, liberation and dignity. 
And while Palestinians iterated for decades their demands for self-determination and basic human rights, the international community and the Palestinian leadership willfully ignored them to pursue another agenda that revolves around negotiations. This has only birthed more repression and a stark increase in the number of settlements. 
Today, we see both the international community and Arab leaders ignoring Palestinian cries for justice once again. This is evident in the dominating discourse of global and as well as Arab leaders - It revolves around the fear of another uprising, instability, and protest. There is no genuine address, in most the speeches and proclamations, to the roots of the travesty bestowed upon the Palestinian people in the form of a violent occupation.
The fixation on the possible reaction of Palestinians and Arab community as being the main reason to oppose this decision obscures the fact that recognition of Jerusalem as an Israeli capital is built on human rights violations and abuse.
It is the amplification of "fear the Palestinian's/Arab's reaction" narrative which may tragically be the framework to push for more negotiations as Arab states scurry to control the havoc of protest and the US pushes its vision for a peace that is merely a facade for giving Israel what it wants; a state without the nuisance of Palestinian existence. 
So while leaders around the globe proclaim that this move will bring an end to peace talks, the two-state solution and any stability in the region, the truth is there has been neither peace nor stability in the territories since the start of the Israeli occupation. 
The discourse of Arab states also marks the insincerity to achieve a real solution in the region, one that would hold Israel accountable for its crimes and provide Palestinians with their full rights. This is especially true as the flood of condemnations against the decision is propagated.
Palestinians have memorised this scenario and the reality that no action will be followed. The truth is, the US has an agenda that is aligned with Israeli interests and Arab states have been cajoling to the Trump administration, limiting any action.
Just this summer, we witnessed Palestinians protesting Israeli measures on al-Aqsa. Then too, there was condemnations and outcry from Arab states and international countries. However, this symptomatic and symbolic approach will only continue emboldening Israel's occupation and takeover of Palestinian land.
Between the lines of Trump's speech on Wednesday, there is Israel's message to the global community. It foretells that if you commit enough crimes while reciting a story to the world, you will get what you want and get away with it.
The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/trump-jerusalem-arab-indifference-palestine-171207073456909.html
Baldimo
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:30 am
@izzythepush,
Why am I not surprised to see you siding with the terrorists.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 11:40 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The Palestinians would be oppressed because the Zionists would refuse to recognize their rights in all of Palestine, i.e. Right of Return, which is happening now. A micro state imposed on the Palestinians by the Zionists would only make the oppression official.

The fact that Palestinians do not have the rights of citizens in a country that they are not a citizen of is hardly oppression.

As an American I'm not allowed to vote in Canadian elections (I assume, I've never tried). Are the Canadians oppressing me?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 12:03 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Jerusalem has indeed been treated as the capital of Israel for decades, albeit unofficially. It is because of this that the Trump recognition was made possible. The groundwork was already present, and so, all of which led up to this moment is evidence of the international community's moral bankruptcy when approaching the Palestinian plight.

The only moral bankruptcy is on the part of the people who support the Palestinians and their aggression against Israel.

But yes. This Palestinian aggression is what makes it possible for Israel to now take land by force.


Quote:
The Israeli government has been enforcing absolute and complete control over the Palestinian population in Jerusalem, just as it has done in other Palestinian cities and towns. Palestinian Jerusalemites only possess residency cards, which can be revoked at any point, Israel continuously demolishes homes in Palestinian neighbourhoods under the pretext of lacking house permits, and Palestinian youth are discriminatorily targeted by Israeli forces.
It is such Israeli policies, the same policies Palestinians have protested for years, that hushed Palestinian voices so Jerusalem can be presented as de facto Israeli.

Oh well.

If the Palestinians had been willing to make peace, East Jerusalem would be their capital right now.


Quote:
Arab leaders ignoring Palestinian cries
What is even more distressing is the fact that this would not have been possible without the compromises made by Palestinian leadership. Palestinian politics have been marred with factional rivalry, security collaboration with Israeli intelligence at the expense of Palestinians, and a series of concessions in the form of agreements and treaties that have never encapsulated the fundamentals of Palestinian demands; justice, liberation and dignity.

No, the Palestinians were offered that and more. The Palestinians rejected peace because they wanted to keep trying to murder children.


Quote:
And while Palestinians iterated for decades their demands for self-determination and basic human rights, the international community and the Palestinian leadership willfully ignored them to pursue another agenda that revolves around negotiations. This has only birthed more repression and a stark increase in the number of settlements.

Preventing Palestinians from being able to murder children is hardly "repression".

But yes, since the Palestinians are refusing to make peace, the settlers get to keep all that land for themselves.


Quote:
Today, we see both the international community and Arab leaders ignoring Palestinian cries for justice once again.

Rightly so. The Palestinians are where they are today because they reject peace and try to murder children.


Quote:
This is evident in the dominating discourse of global and as well as Arab leaders - It revolves around the fear of another uprising, instability, and protest. There is no genuine address, in most the speeches and proclamations, to the roots of the travesty bestowed upon the Palestinian people in the form of a violent occupation.

The Palestinians are not being occupied. They do not possess as much land as they want, but they have full autonomy within Area A.


Quote:
The fixation on the possible reaction of Palestinians and Arab community as being the main reason to oppose this decision obscures the fact that recognition of Jerusalem as an Israeli capital is built on human rights violations and abuse.

It is built on the reality that Jerusalem is Israel's capital.


Quote:
So while leaders around the globe proclaim that this move will bring an end to peace talks, the two-state solution and any stability in the region, the truth is there has been neither peace nor stability in the territories since the start of the Israeli occupation.

As noted above, there is no occupation. The Palestinians are violent simply because they like killing children.


Quote:
The discourse of Arab states also marks the insincerity to achieve a real solution in the region, one that would hold Israel accountable for its crimes and provide Palestinians with their full rights.

It is shameful that neo-nazis still falsely accuse Jews of imaginary crimes.


Quote:
Between the lines of Trump's speech on Wednesday, there is Israel's message to the global community. It foretells that if you commit enough crimes while reciting a story to the world, you will get what you want and get away with it.

It is shameful that neo-nazis still falsely accuse Jews of imaginary crimes.


Quote:
The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.

I should think so. The author is a neo-nazi scumbag.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 12:47 pm
Sides are forming up and the situation becomes more dangerous in the middle east. The U.S., Saudi Arabia, and Israel on one side, Iran, Turkey, and Russia on the other.


revelette1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 03:04 pm
@coluber2001,
The thing of it is, there was no need for it other than instigate bad feelings in the last place there needs to be more trouble. We are not supposed to be adding to the unrest in the world, yet we are and do and with Trump's embassy move and his speech; it serves no other purpose other than to stir bad feelings.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 03:11 pm
@oralloy,
The Palestinians have rights throughout Palestine in accordance with various international treaties and resolutions, your disallowance in Canadian elections nothwithstanding.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 03:27 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
The thing of it is, there was no need for it other than instigate bad feelings in the last place there needs to be more trouble. We are not supposed to be adding to the unrest in the world, yet we are and do and with Trump's embassy move and his speech; it serves no other purpose other than to stir bad feelings.

Nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to have our embassy in the capital where it belongs.

If Muslims decide to murder people because we dare to treat Israel fairly, the ONLY instigators of violence are those Muslims.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 7 Dec, 2017 03:29 pm
@coluber2001,
coluber2001 wrote:
Iran, Turkey, and Russia

What are they going to do, whine really loudly at Israel?

Israel has atomic artillery shells. No conventional army can ever defeat them.

And I don't think Russia is willing to nuke Israel and have Israel retaliate by nuking Moscow and Leningrad.
0 Replies
 
 

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