18
   

Trump's embassy move to Jerusalem 'self-destructive'

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 01:43 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Not sure what that means. I'll check in later to see if you explained.

The UN has many components. One part of the UN is the Security Council. Resolutions by the Security Council have the force of law. But the US has a veto in the Security Council.

The fact that we vetoed the Security Council resolution means that it did NOT pass.

Another part of the UN is the General Assembly. The US has no veto in the General Assembly. However, resolutions by the General Assembly do NOT have the force of law.

The General Assembly resolution likely passed (I didn't bother to check though). However, the fact that General Assembly resolutions have no significance at all, well, means that this resolution has no significance.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 01:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
The USA acts now as Russia and China do (and did).

I think there is a moral distinction to be made between protecting Jews from anti-Semites (as the US does), and protecting genocidal maniacs from war crimes tribunals (as Russia and China do).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 01:47 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
The only arrogance here is on the part of people who think they have the right to tell Jews where their capital is going to be.
Indeed. And the elementary school teacher aka the US ambassador to the UN, Nikki Haley, threatened those unruly pupils that the school principal is on their case.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 02:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
The BBC is reporting that Trump's bully-boy tactics have backfired. Canada had planned on voting against the motion but were so disgusted by Trump's behaviour that they abstained.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 03:04 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

The BBC is reporting that Trump's bully-boy tactics have backfired. Canada had planned on voting against the motion but were so disgusted by Trump's behaviour that they abstained.


not nearly good enough for my vote

the Liberals have now lost my personal vote at the federal level - back to the NDP I go, unless there is a good vote swap option next time
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 03:08 pm
@ehBeth,
Why is the recognition of Israel's capital so offensive to you?
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 03:14 pm
@realjohnboy,
I knew it was non binding, I just didn't know about what happens when a member state with veto power (right wording?) is part of a dispute. Never really paid attention this much before to understand it. In any event:

Quote:
The United Nations General Assembly overwhelmingly backed a measure critical of President Donald Trump’s decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel despite U.S. Ambassador Nikki Haley’s warning that the move could put funding for their nations and the global body at risk.

The nonbinding UN resolution passed on Thursday by a vote of 128-9, with 35 nations abstaining. Key U.S. allies backing the measure over Trump’s threats included the U.K., France, Italy, Japan and Germany. The U.S. was joined in opposition by countries including Guatemala, Nauru and Micronesia. Abstentions included Australia, Canada and Argentina.

“The United States will remember this day when it was singled out for attack in the General Assembly,” Haley said at the U.N. podium ahead of the vote. “We will remember it when so many countries come calling on us, as they often do, to pay even more. This vote will be remembered.”

That threat was repudiated by speakers from countries supporting the resolution, which says the status of Jerusalem must be resolved through negotiations. A similar resolution had 14 votes in favor in the 15-member Security Council last week, prompting Haley to exercise the first U.S. veto since 2011.

‘This is bullying’

“We were all asked to vote no or face the consequences,” Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said before Thursday’s vote. “Some even threatened to cut development aid. This is bullying. It is unethical to think that the votes and dignity of member states are for sale.”


Bloomberg
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 03:17 pm
@oralloy,
I have been discussing politics of the area with Israeli, Egyptian and Palestinian and other middle-eastern friends for over 30 years now.

American politicians have no business interfering with what is going on in Israel - or in the Middle East as a whole. They seem to have no hand for diplomacy.

#45 has stirred things up which didn't need to be stirred up.

Ms. Haley and #45's latest statements prove the current government's total lack of diplomatic sense.

That my government did not have the guts to stand up and be counted against them will be felt - at least in our riding, where we have started to organize against them.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:03 pm
@ehBeth,
We live in this world too. Dealing with the entire world is part of existing in it. Especially when we have allies who need our help and support.

If we didn't involve ourselves in the affairs of the world, things would be considerably worse. Israel will not put up with the crap that much of the world wishes to heap on them. They will not hesitate to fire atomic artillery shells if they are ever invaded by an army that they cannot defeat conventionally. They will not hesitate to nuke population centers on a large scale if anyone ever uses nuclear weapons against them. If not for the US protecting Israel, much of the world could be a charred cinder right now.

What if we didn't protect our oil-producing allies in the Middle East? Imagine having to pay $25 a gallon for gas because some dictator overran all the oil regions and no one did anything to stop him.

How is recognizing the capital that Israel has chosen for themselves interfering with anything? It would seem to me like the people who are trying to interfere are the people who are demanding that Israel not be allowed to chose their own capital.

If someone was demanding that Canada move their capital to some other place against their will, and the US as Canada's friend expressed our support for Canada being able to choose their own capital city, would that too be none of our business?

It seems to me like supporting our friends is within the bounds of what is our business.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:10 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

If someone was demanding that Canada move their capital to some other place against their will, and the US as Canada's friend expressed our support for Canada being able to choose their own capital city, would that too be none of our business?



1. I do not perceive the US as a friend of Canada. There are individual Americans I read as friends. There are US states I read as friends of Canada. Not the American federal government.

2. What you are suggesting is not an equivalent to what America has done re Jerusalem.

Believe what you want.

I prefer to work with facts.
ehBeth
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:11 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

What if we didn't protect our oil-producing allies in the Middle East? Imagine having to pay $25 a gallon for gas because some dictator overran all the oil regions and no one did anything to stop him.


the US REALLY REALLY needs to stay away from the Mid-East. it's been one misstep after another for decades.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:14 pm
@ehBeth,
I've been saying this for years.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:38 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:
2. What you are suggesting is not an equivalent to what America has done re Jerusalem.

What is the difference between the two situations? In each case it involves someone telling a friend where to put their capital and us expressing our support for that friend and their rights.


ehBeth wrote:
Believe what you want.
I prefer to work with facts.

I too have a marked preference for facts.


ehBeth wrote:
the US REALLY REALLY needs to stay away from the Mid-East. it's been one misstep after another for decades.

So we can pay $25 a gallon at the gas pumps when some dictator seizes all the oil, and then ultimately incinerate the planet when someone insists on trying to destroy Israel?

I'd much rather keep the planet running smoothly.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 04:58 pm
Trup's Jerusalem move spurs oposition in UN General Assembly
If this body were really united for peace, it would pass a resolution condemning Palestinian violence
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 05:36 pm
Trump:

"I liked the message that Nikki sent yesterday at the United Nations to all of those nations that take our money and then they vote against us in the Security Council, they vote against us potentially at the Assembly," Trump said. "They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars and then they vote against us. Well, we're watching those votes. Let 'em vote against us."
_______________________________________________

What better way to say: I can't believe that other nations don't understand that we've bought and paid for their votes.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  5  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 05:40 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Why is the recognition of Israel's capital so offensive to you?


Don't most countries get to determine where their capital is located? For better or worse, that does seem the natural prerogative of each country.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 07:18 pm
@InfraBlue,
Sorry, I was rushed for time and couldn't edit what I had posted.

Trup's Jerusalem move spurs oposition in UN General Assembly

"Palestinian puppet masters."

Danny Danon, Israel rep. to the UN, commented on the vote today saying, "those who support today’s resolution are like puppets pulled by the strings of the Palestinian puppet masters." This comment reveals the delusional mindset of the Zionists and the presumed power that they believe the Palestinians--of all people--hold over countries like the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Japan among others.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 07:25 pm
@roger,
It's not so black and white, especially given the history of Palestine and the conflict therein.

Sure, there's the "might makes right" approach to the conflict, but it's not conducive to the peace that the Zionists desire. There's the reality that "one cannot have their cake and eat it too" that the Zionists obdurately ignore.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 08:51 pm
@InfraBlue,
No, it's not a matter of 'might makes right'. It's a matter of one country (like the U.S.) deciding on what its capital might be. The UN is not going to decide our capital moves from D.C. to Scratchass, Alaska. That will be our decision and no one else's.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Dec, 2017 09:03 pm
@roger,
Is East Jerusalem considered occupied territory?
 

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