18
   

Trump's embassy move to Jerusalem 'self-destructive'

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 08:42 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Ashraf al-Qidra, the spokesman for Gaza's health ministry, said in a statement on Saturday that the Israeli army has been using snipers armed with explosive bullets

Typically Israel uses sniper rifles chambered in .50 BMG to make head shots against violent Palestinians. They are quite effective.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:00 am
@oralloy,
So in exchange for helping the British beat the Ottoman government, the Arabs were promised independence. And then they were screwed over. And today, those who are hopelessly immersed in their bias refuse to acknowledge this betrayal. They also refuse to accept the fact that the reason the Arabs were betrayed is because the Zionists offered to use their influence to bring the U.S. into the war in exchange for what the Arabs were promised. And the reason they turn a blind eye to these facts is because to acknowledge them would interfere with their imagined right to see those who were betrayed as vermin who should die.

These are the facts. And those who attempt to put lipstick on this ugliness expose themselves as deficient in character.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:20 am
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
So in exchange for helping the British beat the Ottoman government, the Arabs were promised independence. And then they were screwed over. And today, those who are hopelessly immersed in their bias refuse to acknowledge this betrayal. They also refuse to accept the fact that the reason the Arabs were betrayed is because the Zionists offered to use their influence to bring the U.S. into the war in exchange for what the Arabs were promised.

OK.


Glennn wrote:
And the reason they turn a blind eye to these facts is because to acknowledge them would interfere with their imagined right to see those who were betrayed as vermin who should die.

No. I do acknowledge that those are facts.

The reason why I turn a blind eye to those facts is because I don't see how they are even remotely relevant to anything.

The fact that the British betrayed the Arabs in WWI does not change the reality that the Arabs had no business being in Israel to begin with. Arab invasions into the Roman Empire were completely without justification.

Further, the reason why I denounce the Palestinians as vermin is because I am sick of their never-ending murders and refusal to ever make peace. This is unrelated to anything from ancient history.


Glennn wrote:
These are the facts.

Yes. But how are these facts relevant to anything?


Glennn wrote:
And those who attempt to put lipstick on this ugliness expose themselves as deficient in character.

I'm not trying to put lipstick on any ugliness. The British were right to return Israel to the Israelis. They were wrong to mislead the Arabs into fighting for them. They should have been honest and up front with the Arabs from the start.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 03:31 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
the Arabs had no business being in Israel to begin with.

Yes, they did have business there. They have been living there for over a thousand years. And as I have said, Israel's claim to Palestine is based on their belief in the legitimacy of a bribe which they instigated.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 04:42 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Yes, they did have business there.

That is incorrect. The Arab invasion of the Roman Empire was completely without justification.


Glennn wrote:
They have been living there for over a thousand years.

The length of time that a thief possess stolen property does not legitimize their claim to it.


Glennn wrote:
And as I have said, Israel's claim to Palestine is based on their belief in the legitimacy of a bribe which they instigated.

Your statement is incorrect. The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the historical fact that they are indigenous to the West Bank area.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:07 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Your statement is incorrect.

No. It is true that Zionists bribed the British in order to acquire Palestine as a homeland. And their bribe consisted of their effort to influence the U.S. to enter the war.

As to the rest of your post, you are living in the distant past. It has been suggested to you that, based on your reckoning, the Indians can reclaim their territory within the U.S.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 05:27 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
No. It is true that Zionists bribed the British in order to acquire Palestine as a homeland. And their bribe consisted of their effort to influence the U.S. to enter the war.

The fact that that is true does not change the reality that your statement was incorrect regarding the basis of the Jewish claim. The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the historical reality that they are indigenous to the West Bank area.


Glennn wrote:
As to the rest of your post, you are living in the distant past.

So? What's wrong with acknowledging history?


Glennn wrote:
It has been suggested to you that, based on your reckoning, the Indians can reclaim their territory within the U.S.

I have always said that I support having our courts enforce all the treaties that the US government made with the Native Americans.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:18 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
The fact that that is true does not change the reality that your statement was incorrect regarding the basis of the Jewish claim. The Jewish claim to Palestine is based on the historical reality that they are indigenous to the West Bank area.

It's been over 1000 years! Things have changed.
Quote:
So? What's wrong with acknowledging history?

There is no harm in acknowledging history. But you are not just acknowledging history. You are choosing to recreate history and live there. How is that not obsession?
Quote:
I have always said that I support having our courts enforce all the treaties that the US government made with the Native Americans.

So you're in favor of giving back the land that the indians were removed from?

oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:36 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
It's been over 1000 years! Things have changed.

The possession of stolen property for more than 1000 years does not invalidate the rights of the rightful owners.


Glennn wrote:
There is no harm in acknowledging history. But you are not just acknowledging history. You are choosing to recreate history and live there.

Well, the Jews chose to restore their homeland. I'm just an approving observer.


Glennn wrote:
How is that not obsession?

It may well be obsession. But what is wrong with displaced people yearning to return to their homeland?

I'd say the lesson here is not to steal other people's land. They may become obsessed with reclaiming it.


Glennn wrote:
So you're in favor of giving back the land that the indians were removed from?

If it is necessary in order to comply with a treaty that the US government signed with them, sure.
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 06:46 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
The possession of stolen property for more than 1000 years does not invalidate the rights of the rightful owners.

It does if there are people who have been living on that property for over a thousand years, and who had nothing to do with anything that happened over a thousand years ago.
Quote:
Well, the Jews chose to restore their homeland.

But that "homeland" has been the homeland of others for over a thousand years.
Quote:
But what is wrong with displaced people yearning to return to their homeland?

The wrong is that over a thousand years have passed and there are other people living there now.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 08:20 pm
@Glennn,
I reject the notion that possessing stolen property for more than 1000 years legitimizes the thief's claim to it or invalidates the claims of the legitimate owners.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 09:31 pm
@oralloy,
I submit that you are having trouble processing the knowledge that nothing was stolen from your favorite race of people. The fact is that they were conquered over a thousand years ago.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 09:51 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
I submit that you are having trouble processing the knowledge that nothing was stolen from your favorite race of people.

History shows quite clearly that the Jews were forced from their homeland against their will.


Glennn wrote:
The fact is that they were conquered over a thousand years ago.

That hardly legitimizes stealing their land.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:37 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
History shows quite clearly that the Jews were forced from their homeland against their will.

Yeah, it's called being conquered.
Quote:
Glennn wrote:
The fact is that they were conquered over a thousand years ago.

oralloy replied: That hardly legitimizes stealing their land.

Did Moses conquer the Midianites? Did he take anything from them?
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 16 Dec, 2017 10:57 pm
@Glennn,
Glennn wrote:
Yeah, it's called being conquered.

That hardly legitimizes theft. But if it did, then it would be equally OK for Israel to reconquer their homeland and take it back.


Glennn wrote:
Did Moses conquer the Midianites? Did he take anything from them?

No. Archaeology shows that the Jews are directly descended from the Canaanites.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:29 pm
@oralloy,
Why did the Zionists wait over a thousand years before deciding to "reclaim" their property--property on which Palestinians now live?
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:35 pm
@Glennn,
There was no deliberate decision to wait. They took the first opportunity they got.
Glennn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:43 pm
@oralloy,
Of course there was a deliberate decision to wait over a thousand years. Otherwise, they wouldn't have waited.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 01:57 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Glennn wrote:
The fact is that they were conquered over a thousand years ago.

That hardly legitimizes stealing their land.


do you have similar feelings about what happened in North, Central and South America and the Caribbean?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 18 Dec, 2017 04:07 pm
@Glennn,
Wow! That's about as crazy an anti-Semitic sentiment I've ever seen.
 

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