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Is The Trinity Doctrine A Bible Teaching?

 
 
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2018 08:11 pm
@mark noble,
Everything isn't sentient. Everything refills sentience.

Every person as a shepherd intelligence that used to be one with the intelligence that created it and namely the God we know as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

We are no longer one with Him because of sin. But thanks to His death on the cross we all have the chance to be reunited with Him.

God isn't linear. But we think that way. We are bound by time. That requires us to think somewhat linearly. But we don't have to. We can think like him if we use our imagination.
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Nov, 2018 08:36 pm
@brianjakub,
Everything reveals Sentience.

Every person is a separate intelligence.

Sorry about the typos in my previous post
0 Replies
 
Jewels Vern
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Dec, 2018 11:20 pm
@anthony1312002,
"Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?"

Because most denominations are descended from Roman Catholic traditions, all of which came about when small pagan churches were absorbed, usually with no change. The RC church was itself absorbed into Babylon Mystery Religion. You can get many books with that title presenting the history. The trinity has been a foundational doctrine in many pagan religions going all the way back to when Babylon was first founded.

New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1977 Edition, Vol. 13, p. 1021 -- The first use of the Latin word "trinitas" (trinity) with reference to God, is found in Tertulian's writings (about 213 A.D.) He was the first to use the term "persons" (plural) in a Trinitarian context.

Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol. 27, p. 69 -- The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." - (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.

Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel: "The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher's [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions."
- (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachatre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

World Book Encyclopedia, 1984 Edition, Vol. T, p. 363 -- Belief in Father, Son and Holy Ghost was first defined by the earliest general council of churches. This was the First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.

New International Encyclopedia, Vol. 22 p. 476 -- The Catholic faith is this; We worship one God in Trinity, but there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Ghost. The Glory equal -- the Majesty co-eternal. The doctrine is not found in its fully developed form in the Scriptures. Modern theology does not seek to find it in the Old Testament. At the time of the Reformation the Protestant Church took over the doctrine of the Trinity without serious examination.

Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol. 29, No. 18, p. 51 -- The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture ... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY In the Gospels."
brianjakub
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Dec, 2018 05:09 am
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:
Because most denominations are descended from Roman Catholic traditions, all of which came about when small pagan churches were absorbed, usually with no change.


Only the parts that agree with the teachings of Christ. I don't think Pagans believed in a monotheistic, God consisting of three persons like Christians do. Did they?

Quote:
Encyclopedia Americana, 1957 Edition, Vol. 27, p. 69 -- The word "Trinity" is not in Scripture. The term "persons" (plural) is not applied in Scripture to the Trinity.


Gen1: 26 Then God said, “Let us make humankind[c] in our image, according to our likeness;

John 1 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. . .

14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son,[d] full of grace and truth. 15 (John testified to him and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’”) 16 From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son,[e] who is close to the Father’s heart,[f] who has made him known.

It is pretty obvious here that the bible is referring to multiple persons in one Being. There a lot of words that were not available at the time like any word in English like "man" and "Word" and "flesh". But it is obvious there are three persons being described in the Bible.

Quote:
Life Magazine, October 30, 1950, Vol. 29, No. 18, p. 51 -- The Catholics made this statement concerning their doctrine of the Trinity, to defend the dogma of the assumption of Mary, in an article written by Graham Greene: "Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which is not explicitly stated in Scripture ... But the PROTESTANT CHURCHES have themselves accepted such dogmas as THE TRINITY, for which there is NO SUCH PRECISE AUTHORITY In the Gospels."


The dogma existed before the bible and was established by the twelve apostles, the early bishops and the doctors of the church. That is how they knew which writings to include in the bible when they compiled it.
Jewels Vern
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 03:28 am
@brianjakub,
There are people who will live their entire lives in darkness, never accepting the light given by God's word. They can read a verse in the bible and firmly believe it says exactly whatever they prefer to believe.

John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes, there really are people who think that verse establishes the trinity, and no amount of bible quoting will change their minds because they didn't get that doctrine by bible quoting. It actually says "In the beginning was the word." What's a word? A word can be spoken, but spoken words are not God. A word can be printed, but bibles are not God. And a word can be delivered by a person, made flesh so to speak. Now by what stretch of logic do you take that out of context and say that word is God and the other two are not?

Genesis 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

So there you have John 1:1 demonstrated IRL: The word was with God from the beginning. Everything God does He does by speaking it. Now you have to decide whether you worship God and follow His word, or you worship some church and follow their traditions.

Joshua 24:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 07:34 am
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:
Now you have to decide whether you worship God and follow His word, or you worship some church and follow their traditions.

But the whole story is part of a religious tradition. Who compiled the account and kept it alive? As far as I know, God didn't print and distribute bibles.
Guy Pierrefeu
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 03:49 pm
@anthony1312002,
Even though it is a common assumption among many religious people, the word Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible. In fact, the word Trinity did not come into common use as a religious term until centuries after the last books of the Bible were completed—long after the apostles of Christ were gone from the scene.
0 Replies
 
Miss L Toad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Dec, 2018 07:33 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
As far as I know, God didn't print and distribute bibles.


Idyll speculation.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Dec, 2018 10:08 am
@Miss L Toad,
You seen any of them bibles from god's own publishing house?
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 10:09 am
@anthony1312002,
anthony1312002 wrote:

Many Christian denominations teach that God is a Trinity. However, note what the Encyclopædia Britannica states: “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies.” An interesting statement from a neutral source.

Why do most Christian denominations say that God is a Trinity?

-------------------------
No such THING as a "Christian" denomination teaching the Triune Travesty".

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/theMadJW/Jesus/Timeline2.jpg
0 Replies
 
MadJW
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 10:11 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

As with most Christian dogma the concept of the trinity was a compromise between various factions who were squabbling with each other and accusing each other of heresy.

Most Christian denominations accept the trinity because after 300 years of debate it was established as Christian doctrine in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

Anthony and Richard Hanson wrote:
This was a long, confused, process whereby different schools of thought in the Church worked out for themselves, and then tried to impose on others, their answer to the question, ‘How divine is Jesus Christ?’ . . . If ever there was a controversy decided by the method of trial and error, it was this one.


The concept is never mentioned in the bible and the convoluted arguments which were subsequently invented to support the idea are the best indications that it is indeed specious, an artifice crafted by clever minds to mask the obvious deficiencies in the new religion's theology.


https://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/theMadJW/Triune%20Polytheism/3-fingers.jpg
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Dec, 2018 07:49 pm
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:
John 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Yes, there really are people who think that verse establishes the trinity, and no amount of bible quoting will change their minds because they didn't get that doctrine by bible quoting. It actually says "In the beginning was the word." What's a word? A word can be spoken, but spoken words are not God. A word can be printed, but bibles are not God. And a word can be delivered by a person, made flesh so to speak. Now by what stretch of logic do you take that out of context and say that word is God and the other two are not?


If you use the following common definition of "word" as presented in the dictionary that is hard to do.

Quote:
word
/wərd/Submit
noun
1.
a single distinct meaningful element of speech or writing, used with others (or sometimes alone) to form a sentence and typically shown with a space on either side when written or printed.
synonyms: term, name, expression, designation, locution, vocable; formalappellation
"the Italian word for “ham


But if you put it in the context used in the following bible quote telling how God spoke the universe into existence:

Quote:
Genesis 1 New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
Six Days of Creation and the Sabbath
1 In the beginning when God created[a] the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” 7 So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so. 8 God called the dome Sky. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.


Then a "word", as referenced in the bible is, "a recognizable pattern established in a physical medium, by an intelligent being". In nature that pattern is always stored in fields made up of quarks, electrons, photons, and higgs bosons that are differentiated from each other by their spin. As, these quarks were gathered and entangled into fields, they became recognizable as information, stored in atoms of matter, that are embedded and entangled within the higgs field.

I believe, that is what happened when God said, “Let the waters under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. And then God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas.

In that quote the "waters under the sky" are, the Higgs bosons and photons we now understand as the Higgs field, being organized into the "quarks and electrons" we view as "matter" and the "photons and Higgs bosons" we view (in our minds eye) as the building blocks of the "Higgs field".

So, that is the context I use (a scientific interpretation of the data we observe in nature) to determine logical understanding of the meaning of the word "word".

Therefore anything that physically represents an Idea created by God the Father is the "Living Word of God".

So, I believe both, the words written in the "atoms of nature" and "the words written in the "atoms of every Holy Bible" are the "Living Word of God". I also believe that same person became flesh and dwelt among us as "Jesus Christ" as it states in John 1:6
Quote:
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify to the light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He himself was not the light, but he came to testify to the light. 9 The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world came into being through him; yet the world did not know him. 11 He came to what was his own, and his own people did not accept him. 12 But to all who received him, who believed in his name, he gave power to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and lived among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of a father’s only son, full of grace and truth. 15 (John testified to him and cried out, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me ranks ahead of me because he was before me.’”) 16 From his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 The law indeed was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.


Verse 18 sums it up. But, some translations read:
Quote:
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten [a]Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.


If, you put the following definitions of words "bosom" and "declared" in context, you can see why God (as revealed in nature) is always refereed to in the feminine (Like Mother Nature). But, when The Creator of "Mother Nature" enters the creation as a human being, He enters in the masculine form as The Man "Jesus Christ"

bos·om
/ˈbo͝ozəm/Submit
noun
noun: bosom; plural noun: bosoms
1.
a woman's chest.
"her ample bosom"
synonyms: bust, chest; More
a woman's breast.
a part of a woman's dress covering the chest.
the space between a person's clothing and chest used for carrying things.
"he carried a letter in his bosom"
LITERARY
the loving care and protection of.
"Bruno went home each night to the bosom of his family"
synonyms: protection, shelter, safety, refuge; heart
"the family took Gill into its bosom"
used to refer to the chest as the seat of emotions.
"quivering dread was settling in her bosom"
synonyms: heart, breast, soul, core, spirit
"love was kindled within his bosom"

de·clare
/diˈkler/Submit
verb
past tense: declared; past participle: declared
1.
say something in a solemn and emphatic manner.
"he declared that he never revises his prose"
synonyms: proclaim, announce, state, reveal, air, voice, articulate, express, vent, set forth, publicize, broadcast; More
formally announce the beginning of (a state or condition).
"Spain declared war on Britain in 1796"
synonyms: assert, maintain, state, affirm, contend, argue, insist, hold, profess, claim, avow, swear; formalaver
"he declared that they were guilty"
pronounce or assert (a person or thing) to be something specified.
"the mansion was declared a fire hazard"
synonyms: show to be, reveal as, confirm as, prove to be, attest to someone's being
"his speech declared him to be a gentleman"
openly align oneself for or against (a party or position) in a dispute.
"Mr. Roosevelt had declared for “a new deal.”"
announce oneself as a candidate for an election.
"he declared last April"
reveal one's intentions or identity.
ARCHAIC
express feelings of love to someone.
"she waited in vain for him to declare himself"

So, I worship the "One True God" as He revealed himself as "The Living Word", "The Truth", "The Light", "The Way", "I Am", "Jesus Christ", etc. . . as the Holy Spirit "The Interpreter" properly reveals Him. https://www.crosswalk.com/blogs/debbie-mcdaniel/50-names-of-jesus-who-the-bible-says-christ-is.html
Jewels Vern
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Dec, 2018 10:47 pm
@brianjakub,
"But if you put it in the context used in the following bible quote telling how God spoke the universe into existence: "

The quoted verse does not say what you said. You can't ever find understanding if you persist in misquoting the scriptures.
MadJW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 09:45 am
@brianjakub,
Interersting, but silly.
God never became a man- as the scripturesd so CLEARLY show- but HE (not 'She", "It", or "He-She") SENT someone.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jan, 2019 01:47 pm
@Jewels Vern,
I cut and pasted the scripture how can I misquote it?
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Jan, 2019 10:24 am
@MadJW,
The Trinity
nd Jewels

There are 3 distinct natures of the One true God each is a person with its own free will. Each has a distinct purpose and, which one you are talking about helps determine the context.

The "Father" is the person who is the head and is viewed in a more authoritative context. It was His original idea of "a plan of salvation through love" that gives the universe its purpose. He decides how it is to play out in each of our lives for good. (even when we "choose" to screw it up.)

The "Holy Spirit" is the person who is interpreter that helps us adjust our feelings so that we feel like living in and abiding in this plan. Even, when asked to do something sacrificial that at first, might not "feel good" to us. He does this by giving us understanding and then, this understanding adjusts our feelings to God's feelings.

The Living Word (and the Living Word as expressed in the flesh as the life of Jesus Christ) is how we experience God in the physical sense with our physical bodies.

So, each of these natures of God (Father Son and Holy Spirit) have names that we use when talking about one of those individual natures. And then, the one God that is represented by the consubstantial existence of all three natures, is addressed by a different name in a different context.

This is stated in Catechism 467 Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us in all things but sin". He was begotten from the Father before all ages as to his divinity and in these last days, for us and for our salvation, was born as to his humanity of the virgin Mary, the Mother of God.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consubstantiality

So, the "Trinity" is a word invented at a certain time. And that time was when we determined a need for a word to express this understanding at a time, that happened after the Bible was compiled.

The names for each person are:

For God as a single person comprised of the Trinity: In the Old Testament God was usually addressed in this context since Men had a more limited understanding of His nature at that time and ecognised Him as a Single Entity rather than a Trinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Christianity#Old_Testament

Jesus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_and_titles_of_Jesus_in_the_New_Testament

The Holy Spirit: https://www.gotquestions.org/names-Holy-Spirit.html

For God the Father: In the New Testament is recognized and understood. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Christianity#New_Testament.

P.S. As a Roman Catholic the entire experience of God as it is expressed in the Sacraments of the church. The sacraments culminate in three ways:
1. Eucharist during the sacrifice of the mass.
2. The sacrament of marriage and the raising of a family by (as a father myself) leading that family into marriage relationship with God through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
3. The Sacrament of Holy Orders and apostolic succession through the priesthood because they were given the authority to perform the sacramesnt.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Feb, 2019 09:33 am
@brianjakub,
'Everything isn't sentient'?
Do consider that claim clearly?

SENTIENT - Able to 'Sense'...
0 Replies
 
 

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