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Pope says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Vatican Backpedals

 
 
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 09:17 am
Pope Francis came out with an astounding statement last week: doing good is sufficient to redeem atheists.
Quote:
"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Of course if you've ever been in a Christian church, you know that this is flat out heresy, but he's the Pope, infallible and all that. The Vatican backpedaled clarified the Pope's position today.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 18 • Views: 9,642 • Replies: 122

 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 10:32 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Pope Francis came out with an astounding statement last week: doing good is sufficient to redeem atheists.
Quote:
"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Of course if you've ever been in a Christian church, you know that this is flat out heresy, but he's the Pope, infallible and all that. The Vatican backpedaled clarified the Pope's position today.


It's just selling the Catholic version of Salvation through good works, in my opinion. The message just says, in my opinion, God will accept all good works, even those from atheists; however, in my opinion, the inference is that Salvation through having the spirit in one's heart (and reading the bible) may be just so much wasted time.

It's called expanding one's market base. In effect, Catholicism will have a monopoly on who goes to Heaven, if it makes room for atheists. I would guess that at a later date the Vatican announces that Jews, Muslims, and Protestants can also go to Heaven, if they are "good" (in their works). It's expanding the customer base through good marketing, in my opinion.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 11:01 am
@Foofie,
But didn't the Pope violate the basic tenet of Christianity - that you are saved through belief in Christ? Sure the Catholics say "and do good works" while the Protestants say belief is enough, but no one says good works alone.
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 04:26 pm
Jesus said only through Him would you be with the Father.


0 Replies
 
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 04:53 pm
@engineer,
What?! You're saying the Pope mis-spoke? But...but...but he's infallible. Isn't he?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 30 May, 2013 05:59 pm
It really is a remarkable statement for the Pope to make.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 10:16 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

But didn't the Pope violate the basic tenet of Christianity - that you are saved through belief in Christ? Sure the Catholics say "and do good works" while the Protestants say belief is enough, but no one says good works alone.


Since the Pope does not make mistakes in religious matters ("infallible"), according to Catholic teachings I thought, if he is changing the rules of the game, that's his choice. Sort of like allowing American League teams to have a designated hitter for the pitcher? (not batting=atheism, yet through the good works of pitching, the pitcher gets to continue to stay in the game and sit in the dugout; the dugout being Heaven.)

However, Protestantism is alive and well, and not about to convert to Catholicism, so the Vatican might be talking to the choir, so to speak?
George
 
  3  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 11:43 am
I'm starting to really like this guy.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 12:17 pm
@Foofie,
But atheists are not about to convert either. The audience for this message was Catholics and this is basically a call for tolerance. Like George, I'm starting to like this guy but I can't see the rank and file clergy taking in this particular message.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 08:18 pm
@engineer,
I think maybe they finally got themselves a good Pope. And they sure needed it. The question now is, can they live with him?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 08:24 pm
@rosborne979,
Engineer, I'm not sure you know there is another thread - no matter, they are additive, but just to say that some of us have responded before.
http://able2know.org/topic/214998-1

To shortcut on explaining myself twice, I'm twitchy about Francis in Argentina, quite twitchy, but reports vary by whom, re who he left out to dry and the whys.

On the other hand, I like what I see of his mode. (I think).
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 31 May, 2013 08:38 pm
@ossobuco,
He also somewhat bothers me as working a saint track. I know that's nasty, but cardinals aren't usually stupid, and have families. Maybe, though, he means his views and it is beginning to look like it. And if so, he's doing well.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Jun, 2013 09:10 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
But atheists are not about to convert either. . . .
And to a certain extent that's the point. How do you distinguish an atheist
living a good life from a Catholic living a good life? Maybe you can't. The
Samaritan was the hero of the parable, not the priest.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 04:28 pm
It's somewhat amusing how so many people who profess to (at the very least) total dismissal of Religion/Christianity/Catholicism care so much about what the Pope says.
DrewDad
 
  4  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 04:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

It's somewhat amusing how so many people who profess to (at the very least) total dismissal of Religion/Christianity/Catholicism care so much about what the Pope says.


Why? Atheists don't deny that the Pope is the head of a very large and influential organization.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 05:02 pm
Quote:
Pope says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Vatican Backpedals
How did he get his information ?
Has he interviewed atheists who have returned from death
in hospitals and told him how it worked out ????????
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 07:34 pm
@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
Pope says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Vatican Backpedals
How did he get his information ?
Has he interviewed atheists who have returned from death
in hospitals and told him how it worked out ????????


Hardly germane, David. If we stipulate the infallibility of the Pontiff in religious matters (as all faithful Catholics do), then God told him. No one had to return from the dead.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 07:49 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
U can stipulate if u wanna.
I don't.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 07:52 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Oh, I don't either. That isn't the point. The population which recognizes the Pope as the ultimate authority on religious and theological matters do so stipulate and that is the only thing that matters here..
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Sun 2 Jun, 2013 09:50 pm
Quote:
Pope says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Vatican Backpedals

How did the Vatican backpedal, exactly?
 

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