911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB OUR NATION IS IN PERIL

Surveillance footage.



aliases



luck, different location, multiple passports...



So, um, Arabs cannot be devious or duplicitous?



No one was looking for their cars until after the event... what a surprise!



testament to our poor security measures to be sure.



or if their plans get disrupted they will have an escape route. Remember the 20th hijacker?



Mark Furman planted it.



Are you surprised that a suitcase failed to make a flight? That doesn't seem to surprise hundreds of people every day...



What if his plane was hijacked? Now that would have been ironic...



That's retarded.



Yes, these are indeed laughable facts.

Get your own art, damn it. Do you know how hard it is to find someone hosting a picture of a Black OH-6A "Cayuse"? I'm starting to think they really do exist. (Btw, I settled for a McDonnell Douglas A/MH-6 Little Bird out of frustration :wink:)

Look right at the pen, BP ... you'll feel lots better real soon

but first...some pie....

PBS (Nova, I think) had a nice show on why the WTC towers collapsed.

Rafick,

It may not have occurred to you, but there are a whole better things to wonder about than a kooky conspiracy theory. How about spending some of that time actually working to elect folks whose politics you do agree with? Spend sometime enjoying the freedoms we enjoy, and perhaps contribute to making things better for others. I can pretty much guarantee you'll find the Wizard of Oz more pleasurable to read than paranoid ranting.

Why is it that you are so concerned over such patent nonsense? Events happen, sometimes in retrospect we believe that something might have been done to change the course of events. We want things to be simple and understandable, but events are seldom simple and there are always unanswered questions. Witnesses see only a part of what happened, and their understanding is distorted by emotion and prejudices. Not being omniscient, things may seem irrational, so people begin to spin theories to explain away their confusion and calm their emotional distress. Great tragedies demand great and evil forces behind them. Who could be powerful enough to cause such trauma? We look for scapegoats, and always find them. Sometimes its the Jews or the Catholics, sometimes the Masons, sometimes its the Communists or our own government. Al Quida couldn't be so powerful that they could bring about the 9/11 operations, so it must be someone else. Who? Why its obvious that only the US government is that powerful. Movie and television dramas have repeatedly shown how devious and powerful government conspiracies can be. Bush and Company must have stolen every election, because Democratic partisans and Hollywood celebrities have assured us that the American People overwhelmingly disapprove of Republican policies. Sen. Kennedy and Clinton represent the real political aspirations of the American public, so the only way their candidates fail at the polls must be dirty pool. Farhenhight 9/11 is clear proof positive that President Bush and his wealthy cronies were behind the events of 9/11, right!? :wink:

String a few of these conspiracies together that the fringe like so much and what do you get?

Lincoln was assassinated by Stanton, his Secretary of War, because Lincoln wasn't radical enough for the Republican Party. Booth was just a patsy, and had to be killed to hide the truth. The whole thing was orchestrated by wealthy Yankees intent on robbing the Treasury. With Lincoln out of the way they were able to elect Grant. Grant was a willing conspirator and appointed Cabinet members to insure that the Indians were robbed of their land. The Republican Congress, all of whom were in the pockets of the wealthy, gave away the stolen land to railroads. The country didn't really need the railroads, but it was a way to enrich the rich. Garfield was assassinated because he wasn't part of the cabal, and Chester A. Arthur could be relied upon to aid the conspirators. There are numerous unanswered questions regarding 19th century elections, and in every instance the powerful prevailed. McKinley was assassinated so that Teddy Roosevelt could become President, and carryout the Imperial plots of a few powerful and wealthy aristocrats.

Wilson may have been a member of the Democratic Party, but at heart he was patrician and supporter of the status quo. He sent U.S. troops to invade Mexico, where the Army rode roughshod over the poor peasants and trampled on Mexican sovereignty. After promising to keep the nation out of war, he conspired with the British to enter WWI. He set up the Lousitania to be sunk, and then took months to strong-arm Congress into declaring war.
Those nasty Republicans caused and then used the Depression as an excuse to steal the land of farmers by foreclosing on mortgages and loans. They encouraged stock market speculation, and then sold their shares at enormous profits before the Crash. When it was clear that the game was up, and the American People were ready to throw the scoundrals out, and install a Socialist or Communist government that would truly care for the People, they got FDR elected as a Democrat. All along FDR was a hidden agent of the conspiracy, and he worked closely with that other warmonger, Churchill to bring about WWII.

The Colonial powers, including the US, were determined to keep the Japanese in their place. The Japanese were denied resources they were entitled to. When Japan tried to liberate China and the rest of Asia from the greedy clutches of the US and other Colonial powers, war was inevitable. Hitler could have been peacefully accommodated, but Churchill was determined that Germany should never be more than a vasal state. Hitler tried to maintain the peace by forming an alliance with Stalin, but Stalin was only a tool for the International Jewish conspiracy (along with that notorious American Jew, FDR), so Poland had to be attacked to save it from the Communists. FDR and Churchill just had the dickens of a time trying to provoke war. Finally FDR managed to induce the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor. FDR and his administration could have prevented the attack, but they purposely made sure that the maximum damage would be done.

Truman may have poisoned FDR to prevent him from spilling the beans about how WWII was started and conducted. FDR wasn't really willing to use the Atomic Bomb, so Truman had to be put into office. Truman was also a crypto-Republican, after all he was a businessman and the favorite son of a large political machine. The Japanese were close to surrender, and they had to be kept in the war so an invasion of the Japanese Islands was planned. No one ever really intended to invade with troops, because it would be much better to kill as many innocent Japanese citizens with an Atomic blast and radioactivity. Later, Truman worked to turn China over to the Communists and encouraged the DPRK to invade ROK. When it looked as if that great American hero General MacArthur might actually win the Korean War, Truman fired him.

People tend to forget how long this conspiracy has been going on.

Get a life. The Constitution is still the foundation of American life. The economy is recovering, though the national debt is too high. Our military is the best that ever existed anywhere, anytime. On the other hand, the cost of war always drives the debt out of sight. Folks still are at liberty to believe any sort of nonsense they wish. There is no censorship of newspapers, magazines, books, or films. You can travel anywhere without restriction, follow any career (including welfare) you like. Life in the U.S. is pretty darned good, and its better today for more people than it was even fifty years ago. If you can't take a joke, then .........

Asherman, have I ever mentioned that I love it when you post? Reading a message you have penned is truly a pleasurable experience. Thanks.

Always! <nodding in agreement>

I've seen these kinds of claims here and there on the internet, including this forum and, distressingly, on tenc.org and a couple of similar places populated by people who are at least theoretically bright enough to know better. By this, of course, I have in mind the various claims that the whitehouse and/or pentagon were somehow or other complicit in 9/11, either from the outset or in that fighter cover for D.C. was deliberately withheld after the attacks on the two trade towers.

Now, in general, I have nothing against conspiracy theories, but I like to at least subject them to rudimentary sanity checks. In the case of the new book which alleges that LBJ was complicit in the JFK assasination for instance, no simple sanity checks appear to be violated, at least to my knowledge, hence I would be the last person to denigrate the author of the book without knowing much more than I do about the subject.

Nonetheless, the various claims of whitehouse or pentagon complicity in 9/11 fail any sort of sanity check very badly. In fact, the simplest such tests totally forbid the theories.

For starters, consider the two trade towers. Their destruction and the devastation of the surrounding area and associated loss of life involved hundreds of billions of dollars of loss to the American economy, during George W. Bush's administration. Presidents, of course, are judged as much as anything by how the economy fares while they are in office. George H.W. Bush in particular was pointedly denied a second term in office for precisely this reason. What then could possibly tempt George W. Bush to risk such a thing on his own watch? I do not know of any possibility of a reasonable answer.

Next consider Dick Cheney, who was in the whitehouse at the time and missed a close encounter with one of the hijacked planes only via the heroism of its passengers. Consider also that the whitehouse was built in the early 1800s and that the architects assuredly never planned for it to survive an encounter with a 767.

For Cheney to have had any complicity in the events would amount to playing Russian roulette with at least two or three chambers in the revolver loaded. What could plausibly tempt a guy like Cheney to put his own ass at such risk? What could you possibly offer the guy to take such a chance?

Money? I doubt it; I mean, the guy seems to have lots of that... Sex, teenage interns maybe?? The guy probably has access to as much of that as his heart condition would allow for. Drugs? What??

Likewise the pentagon lost about 300 of its own people in the attacks and there is no way they could have known precisely how the plane would hit the building or who amongst themselves would be killed. Aside from the fact that any pentagon complicity would also represent pentagon bosses playing Russian roulette with more than one chamber loaded, there is also the fact that any such conspiracy would involve an unacceptable risk of destruction of military careers and of hundreds if not thousands of major-league type lawsuits by relatives of victims.

Aside from all that, there is the fact that firefighting squads from every jurisdiction within something like a 30 mile circle around Washington D.C. were right there fighting that fire for several days. How does a government go about buying the silence of all those different firemen if the whole thing is a scam of some sort? What politician would risk HAVING TO try to keep all those guys silent?

The inescapable conclusion I come to is that anybody who buys off on any of these theories is basically an idiot.

Ticomaya, you're one of many who appreciates Asherman's fine posts. Here's one he posted before you were aboard. I think you'll like it: http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=30672&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10

Thanks for the link. I've bookmarked it and will read it later. Now it's time to commute!

Gungasnake wrote


For starters, consider the two trade towers. Their destruction and the devastation of the surrounding area and associated loss of life involved hundreds of billions of dollars of loss to the American economy, during George W. Bush's administration. Presidents, of course, are judged as much as anything by how the economy fares while they are in office. George H.W. Bush in particular was pointedly denied a second term in office for precisely this reason. What then could possibly tempt George W. Bush to risk such a thing on his own watch? I do not know of any possibility of a reasonable answer.

I'm not saying I believe this conspiracy theory, but the amount of money to be earned by the small bushco conglomerate well exceeds any losses at the WTC or the Pentagon....the corporations that pull bushs strings will profit tremendously for years to come from this event. Besides these people don't give a rats ass about the economy...they care about getting wealthy enough to be insulated from any negative financial contingencies in the coming years...at any cost..... so that argument doesn't mean much.....and btw, without the war on terror which resulted from 9/11 bush 2 would have almost assuredly been a one termer.....so another benefit which offsets the damage of 9/11.

Sez you... with no possible way of backing it. My opinion, which I couldn't back either, is that Bush's response to 9-11 cost him as many new votes as it earned. Kerry was still going to be Kerry. Take away the reasons to hate Bush, what's left of Kerry's campaign? That dog won't hunt. People would still be asking; why the long face John Kerry?

No way of knowin', of course, but I submit that absent 9/11, the economic shock attendant directly thereupon, and the deficit-balloonin', economy-hinderin' costs associated with the WOT and the Afghanistan and Iraq interventions and their attendant, divisive, partisan polarization, The Democrats would have hit the mat even harder and more frequently than they did in '02 and would gone down for the count and had to have been carried from the ring on a stretcher, their very survival in serious question in '04.

As it is, even with the advantage of having been handed a couple of sturdy clubs, the Democrats still managed to lose both rounds.

This just keeps getting better and better. If it werent such a tragedy we are talking about, this conspiraacy would be humorous.

I must go warm up the chopper .

Yes, we have some of out top conspiracy theorists working this thread. Better cook up some more popcorn...

youre talking popcorn, Im talkiin Cobras

Cobras?

I suppose that could work... but nothing says paranoid like a Hughs OH-6 Cayuse.

Problem is, you can't find a pic of a black one flying anywhere... so you either have to settle for a model of one:

Or give up, like I did and use the very similar AH / MH-6J "Little Bird"

Which is cheating... but they're much more readily available and damn close.

O Bill, I believe youre suffering from Rotor envy. I need a machhine that is silent as a sneaky fart.

Having spent much longer than usual researching the appropriate rotor-wing (from the highly entertaining movie, "Capricorn One" (easily O.J.'s best film), I was left with extra rotor-art and I thought it would be a shame to waste it. :wink: