Voters Support Kerry

Y'all are hilarious....

Everybody needs to shut it unless their words are granted prior approval by Sofia. You notice, of course, that she has not shut it,and that's because she is typical of the right-wing Republicans who wish to stifle all dissent except that approved by their Party.

Just listen to her side, and the world will be okay. Meanwhile, you just shut it and abdicate your First Amendment rights to those people such as Sophia and Dubya who will take them away from you in a heart-beat.

You, Sofia, are the one who should shut it unless you are at least tolerant of viewpoints other than your own.

williamhenry--

The topic should be discussed, not the member.

The comment you made about me is ridiculous. I am tolerant of all views. And can ably discuss them without resorting to personal insults against other members.

My opinion is that actors should stop using the platform of their jobs to spew their political views. If you don't agree, feel free to share your views on the subject; but the rules of this board protect members from being personally insulted.

Sofia, how does that work, though? Regular people can "spew" whatever political views they want... right? Do they have to stop when they become famous?

Personally, I'm happier when someone makes use of the attention they get due to how well they sing or dunk a basketball or flex a well-oiled bicep to say something of substance rather than merely "buy my product."

Sophia<

To write "that actors should stop using the platform of their jobs to spew their political views" indicates to me that you have a high level of intolerance at least when it comes to First Amendment issues.

I cannot attack you personally as I do not know you. I deeply regret any angst that my remarks may have caused you.

For further information on tolerance, www.tolerance.org is an excellent source.

There is no compelling reason I can see why actors (or athletes or musicians or anyone who is a popular figure) ought to restrain themselves from voicing political opinions, where on the other hand there is a compelling First Ammendment reason to allow them to speak. If we are worried that listeners will give such opinions undue weight merely because the speakers are celebrities (as constrasted with actual authorities on a matter), then our proper course is to educate our kids in schools to more properly judge relevance.

oh, this is really good...

Sofia - why do people keep accusing you of being close minded?

Conspiracy?

Sofia is as open-minded as the next one, although that would mean the next one thinks like her, which sort of takes away the open-mindedness.

And I don't agree with you, Sofia, because what that does is single out a group. There are states that allow judges to run on the basis of their political connecions. That, it seems to me, is even worse. And what about doctors running for office (I'm not even talking major here - I'm talking about things like school boards) on the strength of their political beliefs, and using discussions and forums to air them?

Hollywood, for some reason, has always been sought after and shunned at the same time by republicans. But they have no hesitation about letting well known celebrities like Charlton Heston be vocally strong with the repub NRA lobby.

Actors, directors, gaffers - they are all citizens, and all should be able to voice their opinions. Just like all of us here. And we can choose not to listen, as I choose with Rumsfeld. But please don't tell me to shut it.

Again, snood deviates from the topic and makes the member the topic.

Not close minded. Just have a minority opinion. There is a difference.

mamaj--
If you don't mind your doctor talking to you about his political leanings during a pelvic exam, or your mechanic talking politics while you're paying him to fix your car-- that is your business.

I do mind. I pay people for different things, and do not care to hear about their politics. I do think it's inappropriate for a judge to discuss his political opinions while on the bench.. And this is my problem with people who are paid to entertain. I don't care what they say on their own time, or on their websites-- but while they are at the Oscars or on their public platform, where they are to entertain, I don't want to hear it.
___________________
Sofia is as open-minded as the next one, although that would mean the next one thinks like her, which sort of takes away the open-mindedness.
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You take liberties making rude and untrue statements about me. Your above insult is of a personal nature, and not allowed due to board policy. I withhold personal judgements, as you should. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are close-minded.

Sofia<

To compare a judge's discussing legal opinions while he is on the bench with the public utterances of actors and actresses indicates your failure to fully comprehend the legal system in America -- and also the First Amendment.

williamhenry--
You misread. Certainly you know the difference in a judge discussing legal issues on the bench, and discussing his own personal political views...

And, this First Amendment stuff doesn't come into it. We all have the right to speak--although you seem to continue to argue with my right to do so.

I have merely forwarded an opinion that I do not like actors and actresses to use the bully pulpit of their jobs to express their political views.

If you're such a big proponent of Free Speech, get your mitts off mine.

I would be very surprised if Charlton Heston did not express the NRA viewpoint. He is the president of the organization, after all.

Sofia,

Has someone told you that you don't have the right to speak? If so, who told you this? It doesn't sound very nice to me. I think you may be mistaking disagreement for censure.

As far as the actors speaking about their political opinions. ......... I understand, as you've said, that you have merely forwarded an opinion about not liking actors speaking about their political views in public. And it's good of you to speak up and let us know.

Now I'd like to say my opinion about this subject.

I don't mind if actors speak up. They're citizens of this country and have a right to speak their minds. An actor is neither a lawyer nor a psychiatrist, nor a judge, serving in public office and paid by the government. An actor is a free lance artist and not obligated in any way to keep their political opinions to themselves. And there's another problem. If actors don't speak up, it would severely handicap PR efforts. How would Carl Rove be able to play his tricks? Actors are as free to volunteer their time and effort to the campaign as is any other person. And I see no difference in this and the PR methods regularly accepted and employed to advertise for candidates or political parties.

Now that being said, I'll also say that I'm having some trouble understanding how this subject fits in with the topic line. Perhaps I'll read back further.

Sofia - I think your analogy of comparing an actor speaking out politically with the doctor promoting her or his political opinions while conducting a pelvic examination - (though, interestingly enough, but quite irrelevantly to the discussion a very conservative doctor once did just that to me, leading to an exchange interesting in both content and position! But I digress. I thought it most inappropriate, though) - or the mechanic promoting theirs while discussing your car's needs with you, to be quite misleading.

When they are actually working, actors generally speak others' words.

They make political comments, generally, when NOT engaged in their professional business - and I believe to criticise them for this is as unfair as it would be to criticise the doctor or mechanic for voicing theirs when THEY are not working.

I agree with you that for the doctor or mechanic to be promoting their politics while actually employed by you for their services is inappropriate - but, as I said, the actor is not doing this.

Surely you do not deny the doctor or mechanic the right to promote their political views when NOT working?

Why should the actor not do the same?

Nice, dlowan...

To be forthright, I suggest the 'problem' here is three-fold: first, that actors are celebrities, thus have a higher visibility than normal citizens. Madonna or Warren Beatty show up on Opra and voice their opinions more often than plumbers.

Second, that such celebrities are (often) able to influence the opinion of fans or the general citizenry moreso than can the normal citizen.

Third, that it seems likely the species of celebrity which Sofia is unhappy to hear speaking are, in the main, of a differing political persuasion.

I have a similar pet peeve to Sofia's. I'm really not at all interested in hearing a Grammy winner or a baseball pitcher add to his interview or her acceptance speech that the album or the third inning couldn't have been achieved without God's helping hand (leaving out any spitball joke here).

Of course, I can express my notion that such speech bores me to tears and I'd rather it didn't occupy even a second of my day, and I can say I'D RATHER they shut up, but that's as far as I can take it if I truly beleive in free speech.

...or, you could call a radio talk show hosted by someone as irritated as you by those kinds of things, try to instigate a lot of public outcry against the baseball pitcher, and generally just show your ass...


naw, I like your "just wishing they'd shut up" much better...

I am going to toss in a link here, which isn't particularly on the topic, but which I know will be of interest to these participants... from the lastest NY Review of Books... The Court and the University
By Ronald Dworkin http://www.nybooks.com/

I just saw this and haven't had a chance to read it yet, but if you aren't familiar with Dworkin (or even if you are) you're in for a treat. His writings are as fine an example of carefully reasoned discourse as I've bumped into.

Gee.

It's all in the wording.

I just wish they'd shut up.