Why I left the Democratic Party

@maporsche,

Too clear for your taste? You prefer something more confused and opaque?

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Too clear for your taste? You prefer something more confused and opaque?

If only life were as crystal clear as you wish it to be.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

I know i know, life is confusing. That's why it's useful to go by a few clear moral principles. Helps you spot right from wrong.

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@Olivier5,

How long has America been suffering mass shootings?

How huge is the outcry to confront the problem?

Democrats nor Republicans wanted movement on gun control, even in its least restrictive form.

So shootings pile up until—hey, don’t look now. People are trying to ban a class of firearm.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You're kinda cute... Before sporting that opinion though, it would be prudent of you to inform yourself about the amount of cash donated by financial firms to those dems most eager to deregulate. I bet you their "honest opinion" has been well oiled.

Yes.

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@Lash,

Quote:

People are trying to ban a class of firearm.

Oh my gaaaad! What a shame. Next thing you know, civilians won't be able to own nuclear weapons anymore, because they are deemed too dangerous to society, or something.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Too clear for your taste? You prefer something more confused and opaque?

I prefer realistic - which rarely means clear when it comes to politics and politicians.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

So, Disturbed Bob is going to walk in Cabela’s, ask to buy an AR, and when he’s told they’re banned, he’ll just walk out.

Yeah.

I think you’re the one who believes in aliens.

1 Reply

@Lash,

So we should give all wackos an assault rifle, otherwise they'll blow a fuse. Ooookey dokey.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

You’ve been studying argumentation at the feet of maporsche.

Disturbed Bob and his mentally unstable friends not only can’t get ARs, they can’t get any firearms. Gun sellers will lose their licenses if they sell these particular people firearms.

THIS will prevent shootings. Your plan prevents nothing, but instead strengthens the NRA.

1 Reply

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/3/6/17086452/democrats-dodd-frank

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Oh yeah... let's confuse everything now because you know? our times, they need more moral confusion. So let us say that it is A-okay for elected politicians to vote as lobbyists pay and tell them to vote, not as their constituency wants them to vote.

That's realistic alright. That happens all the time, right? America today is the best democracy money can buy. Public policy reflects the interests of the payers, not the voters. And His Porsche says: that's normal, nothing to be concerned of.

I say it's not normal. The people who invented modern democracy deserve more than that. They deserve moral clarity here: is it THEIR republic, or the Koch brothers'?

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

America today is the best democracy

as has been pointed out to me many times here ... the US is not a democracy.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Oh sorry, got you wrong. So your plan is what? to block obvious nutcases from buying guns? Brilliant! What about the rest of us, the not-so-obvious nutcases?

3 Replies

@ehBeth,

That's semantics.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

It is a fundamental issue.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/01/united-states-republic-democracy/

You see posters' (primarily from the right of the American centre - so right of right elsewhere) concerned about the excesses of democracy. It matters to them that America is a republic, not a democracy.

Quote:

In fear of this tyranny of the majority, the founders clearly and explicitly established a constitutional republic, where laws are made and administered via representatives and powers limited by the written constitution. The founders and other Enlightenment thinkers believed it would:
Quote:
Help protect against majority tyranny by filtering the people’s desires through the rational discretion of other representatives. . . . [and] help prevent government actions from depriving individuals of their rights, even when those actions are supported by a majority – sometimes an overwhelming majority – of the people . . .

Quote:

Progressive writer and talk show host Thom Hartman calls it:

Quote:
A constitutionally limited representative democratic republic [where] . . . the constitution, limits the power of government. We elect representatives, so it’s not a pure democracy. But we do elect them by majority rule so it is democratic. And the form of, the infrastructure, the total form of government, is republican, it is a republic.

It looks enough like a democracy that for those of use who do live in democracies it can be misleading.

The Electoral College is about the clearest marker that the US is not a majority rules democracy. It's not what it is and not what it aspires to be.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Thanks, ehbeth, I am disappointed in them.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

I hope the voters rub their noses in it. Make them fight for any nominations/votes.

0 Replies

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Oh yeah... let's confuse everything now because you know? our times, they need more moral confusion.

We have become a more partisan and divided nation because of people who think all issue can be boiled down to left/right, right/wrong, good/evil, or black/white.

Most issues in America have a shade of grey.

Quote:

So let us say that it is A-okay for elected politicians to vote as lobbyists pay and tell them to vote, not as their constituency wants them to vote.

There are both lobbyist telling them to vote FOR and AGAINST juts about every issue. They have to obey one of them, don't they?

I think a strong case could be made that many of these democratic politicians are voting just as their red-state constituencies want them to vote.

Quote:

They deserve moral clarity here:

They deserve to not be treated as the simpletons you seem to think people are. There is often not moral clarity in complex situations.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Oh sorry, got you wrong. So your plan is what? to block obvious nutcases from buying guns? Brilliant! What about the rest of us, the not-so-obvious nutcases?

Or the ones who don't become nutcases until years after they buy an arsenal of guns.

0 Replies

Why I left the Democratic Party

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