29
   

Why I left the Democratic Party

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 03:32 pm
@izzythepush,
He had all kinds of Democratic votes of support, including from Clinton.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
You're a real piece of work, so now Clinton is responsible for the illegal war in Iraq and Bush and Cheney get off scot free.

You could have worked for Goebbels.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:18 pm
@izzythepush,
You are becoming a real jerk off here. I said it was bipartisan. In America that means both parties voted to invade.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:22 pm
@izzythepush,
The whole Congress approved of the wars. They were either convinced or approving for some other reason.

I definitely paid attention when Saddam refused to allow inspectors in the facilities. I definitely paid attention when Iraqi scientists went missing, and one ran screaming to a UN caravan, and was dragged away, not to be seen again. I seem to remember your country lining up as well.

I think Sheila Jackson Lee and Bernie were the only hold outs. There may have been another.

I did believe Saddam was working in concert with terrorist training. I did believe he was working on WMD. He may have been.

The difference for me more recently are my ideas about WMD, why people have them, who are terrorists and who are freedom fighters, and my country’s role in these and satellite ideas lead me to different conclusions. Additionally, war is a different thing to me than it was then.

I’m not apologizing for then, and I’m not apologizing for now. What I am doing is working with like-minded people to clean up corruption in my government. I was attracted to Bernie Sanders because I could almost always find a video of him warning against everything I considered a mistake and championing everything I believed to be right. A lot of other people felt the same way.

When we watched him get cheated out of the nomination, I chose that as the time to stop voting for monsters. Better late than never.





izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:23 pm
@edgarblythe,
Sound like you're trying to let Bush off, then there's your racist stuff on another thread.

Let's just say the scales have dropped from my eyes.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:25 pm
@Lash,
The difference is we were overwhelmingly against the illegal war. You were in favour. We had the biggest demonstration against it ever. I'm talking about the population, not the government.

There's a real difference, a big difference.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:29 pm
When Bush decided to invade Iraq, I wrote letters of protest to officials and I argued that it was ridiculous to think Iraq could be that kind of a threat. We had total control of their air space and could view every move they made before they could make any major moves. The first president Bush had already pointed out that such an attack would be disastrous. I was disillusioned with Democrats for going along with it.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:30 pm
@izzythepush,
Let's just say you are letting your fervor outwit your brain.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:32 pm
@edgarblythe,
Both of the Bush's aggression against Iraq were war crimes, and as always, they were based totally on US lies.

Only disillusioned, Edgar, for approving actions that were the equivalent of what the Nazis did?
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:34 pm
@izzythepush,
You all still allowed your Blair government to engage in the ultimate war crimes, the illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.

Quote:
In the judgment of the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, which followed World War II, "War is essentially an evil thing. Its consequences are not confined to the belligerent states alone, but affect the whole world. To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."[2] [3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_aggression
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:37 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You're a real piece of work, so now Clinton is responsible for the illegal war in Iraq and Bush and Cheney get off scot free.


Clinton is responsible for the planned US genocide against the people of Iraq in the 1990s.

Speaking of real pieces of work, Izzy, your war criminal governments are pretty much the equal of the USA, in a poodle kind of way.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:37 pm
Because Izzy has turned it personal with me, I have put his ass on ignore. I tried to keep it civil, but he becomes increasingly belligerent.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:38 pm
@edgarblythe,
Say what you want, it's been a real eye opener. I suspected as much when you used the term 'democratic socialism,' it's not a term a real socialist would use, not someone who actually understands what socialism is. It sounds like the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or the German Democratic Republic, places that are/were anything but.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:44 pm
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.

Edgar has been an authentic anti-war superlib since my arrival 15 or so years ago. He has clear credentials with everyone here who’s not a liar.

He used to pitch me around by the ears routinely.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:49 pm
http://www.dsausa.org

Dem Soc news you can use.

Who we are & what we do

Democratic Socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically to meet human needs, not to make profits for a few. We are a political and activist organization, not a party; through campus and community-based chapters DSA members use a variety of tactics, from legislative to direct action, to fight for reforms that empower working people.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:50 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.


Your endorsement speaks volumes. The only people who use democratic socialism as a phrase are authoritarian regimes. Jeremy Corbyn would never use the phrase. If he did he would lose the trust of the people. Sanders' use of the phrase makes him suspect.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:51 pm
@Lash,
Sounds fishy to me.
camlok
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:52 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Yet you voted for a man who allowed 9/11 to happen and started an illegal war with Iraq ...


Can you say Tony Blair, izzy?

Nobody in the US allowed 9/11 to happen. Elements within the US government planned and executed the charade that went on on 9/11.

You really have got to get up to speed on the science and the actual events of 9/11, izzy.

I am continually stunned by what are supposed to be adults ignoring the impossibilities of the USG conspiracy theory nonsense.

There is no evidence for any hijackers. The big propaganda guy, Todd Beamer's phone call to the GTE operator was a total fake. The operator, thru out the call, was wondering how it was not being dropped. Todd's "phone call" lasted 13 minutes after UA93 supposedly ploughed into the earth in Shanksville, a total impossibility.

Quote:
Reporting that he had left the phone after saying “Let’s roll,” she wrote that the line “just went silent.” Although she held on for “probably 15 minutes” (the early evidence had indicated it was 13 minutes), she “never heard a crash.” She added: “I can’t explain it. We didn’t lose a connection because there’s a different sound that you use. It’s a squealing sound when you lose a connection. I never lost connection, but it just went silent.” [21]

http://www.consensus911.org/point-pc-1/


After the UA "crash", Todd Beamer's cell phone made 19 calls.

Quote:
On September 29, 2001, the FBI received detailed records from Verizon’s wireless subscriber office in Bedminster, NJ, that Todd Beamer’s cell phone made 19 outgoing calls after the alleged 10:03 AM crash time of Flight UA 93. [22] This fact, along with the sixth one, indicates either that the man self-identified as Todd Beamer was not on UA 93, or Tod Beamer’s cell phone was not on the flight, or this flight did not crash.

Ibid


A dandy example of how US propaganda works is that the purported hero, Todd Beamer, never said the famous "let's roll" phrase. The GTE operator said so and she was the one that was speaking to the alleged "Todd Beamer".

Lord, those who believe the US government are incredible dupes!!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:54 pm
Shortly after the Presidential election, a small piece of good news came over the wire: the Thomas Mann villa in Los Angeles has been saved. The house, which was built to Mann’s specifications, in the nineteen-forties, went on the market earlier this year, and it seemed likely to be demolished, because the structure was deemed less valuable than the land beneath it. After prolonged negotiations, the German government bought the property, with the idea of establishing it as a cultural center.
The house deserves to stand not only because a great writer lived there but because it brings to mind a tragic moment in American cultural history. The author of “Death in Venice” and “The Magic Mountain” settled in this country in 1938, a grateful refugee from Nazism. He became a citizen and extolled American ideals. By 1952, though, he had become convinced that McCarthyism was a prelude to fascism, and felt compelled to emigrate again. At the time of the House Un-American Activities Committee’s hearings on Communism in Hollywood, Mann said, “Spiritual intolerance, political inquisitions, and declining legal security, and all this in the name of an alleged ‘state of emergency.’ . . . That is how it started in Germany.” The tearing down of Mann’s “magic villa” would have been a cold epilogue to a melancholy tale.
Mann was hardly the only Central European émigré who experienced uneasy feelings of déjà vu in the fearful years after the end of the Second World War. Members of the intellectual enclave known as the Frankfurt School—originally based at the Institute for Social Research, in Frankfurt—felt a similar alarm. In 1950, Max Horkheimer and Theodor W. Adorno helped to assemble a volume titled “The Authoritarian Personality,” which constructed a psychological and sociological profile of the “potentially fascistic_ _individual.” The work was based on interviews with American subjects, and the steady accumulation of racist, antidemocratic, paranoid, and irrational sentiments in the case studies gave the German-speakers pause. Likewise, Leo Lowenthal and Norbert Guterman’s 1949 book, “Prophets of Deceit,” studied the Father Coughlin type of rabble-rouser, contemplating the “possibility that a situation will arise in which large numbers of people would be susceptible to his psychological manipulation.”
Adorno believed that the greatest danger to American democracy lay in the mass-culture apparatus of film, radio, and television. Indeed, in his view, this apparatus operates in dictatorial fashion even when no dictatorship is in place: it enforces conformity, quiets dissent, mutes thought. Nazi Germany was merely the most extreme case of a late-capitalist condition in which people surrender real intellectual freedom in favor of a sham paradise of personal liberation and comfort. Watching wartime newsreels, Adorno concluded that the “culture industry,” as he and Horkheimer called it, was replicating fascist methods of mass hypnosis. Above all, he saw a blurring of the line between reality and fiction. In his 1951 book, “Minima Moralia,” he wrote:
Lies have long legs: they are ahead of their time. The conversion of all questions of truth into questions of power, a process that truth itself cannot escape if it is not to be annihilated by power, not only suppresses truth as in earlier despotic orders, but has attacked the very heart of the distinction between true and false, which the hirelings of logic were in any case diligently working to abolish. So Hitler, of whom no one can say whether he died or escaped, survives.** **
Mann, who had consulted Adorno while writing his musical novel “Doctor Faustus,” was reading “Minima Moralia” as he contemplated his departure from America. He compared the book’s aphoristic style to the “enormously strong gravitational force-field” of a super-compact celestial body. Possibly, it exerted a pull on his decision to go into exile again. A few months later, on the eve of leaving, Mann wrote to Adorno, “The way things are developing is already clear. And we have rather gone beyond Brüning.” Heinrich Brüning was the Chancellor of Germany from 1930 to 1932.
The fears of Mann, Adorno, and other émigrés came to naught—or so it seemed. The McCarthyite danger passed; civil rights advanced; free speech triumphed; liberal democracy spread around the world. By the end of the century, the Frankfurt School was seen in many quarters as an artifact of intellectual kitsch. In recent years, though, its stock has risen once again. As Stuart Jeffries points out in his recent book, “Grand Hotel Abyss: The Lives of the Frankfurt School,” the ongoing international crisis of capitalism and liberal democracy has prompted a resurgence of interest in the body of work known as critical theory. The combination of economic inequality and pop-cultural frivolity is precisely the scenario Adorno and others had in mind: mass distraction masking élite domination. Two years ago, in an essay on the persistence of the Frankfurt School, I wrote, “If Adorno were to look upon the cultural landscape of the twenty-first century, he might take grim satisfaction in seeing his fondest fears realized.”
I spoke too soon. His moment of vindication is arriving now. With the election of Donald Trump, the latent threat of American authoritarianism is on the verge of being realized, its characteristics already mapped by latter-day sociologists who have updated Adorno’s “F-scale” for fascist tendencies. To read “Prophets of Deceit” is to see clear anticipations of Trump’s bigoted harangues. (The script in 1949: “We are coming to the crossroads where we must decide whether we are going to preserve law and order and decency or whether we are going to be sold down the river to these Red traitors who are undermining America.”) As early as the forties, Adorno saw American life as a kind of reality show: “Men are reduced to walk-on parts in a monster documentary film which has no spectators, since the least of them has his bit to do on the screen.” Now a businessman turned reality-show star has been elected President. Like it or not, Trump is as much a pop-culture phenomenon as he is a political one.
What Adorno identified as the erasure of the “borderline between culture and empirical reality” is endemic on social media. The failure of Facebook to halt the proliferation of fake news during the campaign season should have surprised no one; the local
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-frankfurt-school-knew-trump-was-coming?mbid=social_facebook
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Feb, 2018 04:56 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Bernie is a Democratic Socialist.

Edgar has been an authentic anti-war superlib since my arrival 15 or so years ago. He has clear credentials with everyone here who’s not a liar.

He used to pitch me around by the ears routinely.

When you and I used to argue, I didn't always see your point. I even was wrong a time or two. Wink
 

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