Offspring: thoughts on the ones you had, or didn't have ...

I love babies. I love children and live vicariously through my friend's and family's offspring but then when I see the mess they make of their kids, I wonder if I could have done it any better.

I have three kids, let's call them Hermione (21), Clive (19), and Nigel
(16).

At one point when Nigel was two, I said to the Lovely Bride "You know, we
wanted him, we planned for him, we made a serious effort to bring him
about, and now, here he is. WHAT WERE WE THINKING?!?!"

Clive has what they like to call "challenges". No one can tell us exactly
what's wrong or how it came to be wrong. He just is what he is. There
are gross and fine motor problems, developmental delays in his social
behavior and verbal comprehension, and some deep-seated fears (dogs
send him into a panic). I'll be honest. Sometimes I was embarrassed by
him in public. Sometimes I resented that he is probably going to be
dependent on me for life.

I don't think Hermione has ever really forgiven me for ruining her life by
not allowing to go to a dance in sixth grade. Once she entered high
school, my worries turned around as she never really had a boyfriend
throughout those years. Admitting some paternal bias here, I believe her
intelligence intimidated the lads.

The Lovely Bride and I both wanted kids and agreed on this before we
married. After one miscarriage, we got our wish. And much more
besides.

George, sorry to hear about the challenges - you obviously love him deeply. Have you read The Curious Incident of the Dog in the NIght Time? - a teenage autistic boy turns detective, the book is written from his viewpoint and it has the most incredible insight into the thought processes behind the challenging behaviour, a very moving book as well as a good story.

I hear echoes of my own feelings on this subject from many of you. I have no kids and no regrets, and at age 38 decided that there would be no babies for me. I never met a man I wanted to have children with, and had no desire to raise them by myself, which several friends had done.

So I moved here six years ago where my nieces and nephews to be more involved in their lives.

I'm still a baby nut. Always smiling at toddlers at the grocery store and such. And I spend a lot of time at family reunions holding the newest little cousins. But like I said, no regrets. I'm perfectly happy to return them to their parents.

Thanks, Vivien. I'm going to read that book.
Mac11, I love uncle-hood.
Have fun with the little ones, get them all revved up,
and then hand 'em off.
Hee!

the secret is in playing the cards you're dealt isn't it?

we can never know quite what the other choice would have been like but if we are happy and fulfilled (and ensure that we are) then either choice is 'right'.

I might have gone back to uni earlier and had a high flying career - who knows?? but I did what I did and wouldn't be without my daughters for anything so I see it as the right decision.

What a beautiful thread.

I, from as far back as I can remember, always wanted 10 children. I don't know why I chose the number 10, but I did, and I told everyone who would listen that I wanted to have 10 children when I grew up. They would smile and say "That's nice." I suspected they knew something I did not.

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I'm glad I DON'T have ten.

Two is a lovely number as well, when it comes to pregnancies. And three is even more swell when it comes to children in my life.

Both pregnancies ended early, but with remarkable outcomes. They are beautiful, funny, smart, and certainly my most remarkable life achievement, though I can't claim full credit for their outcome. I always viewed my children as "gifts." It is quite humbling to think God thought me worthy of raising them.

My third is actually Bears from a previous marriage. He was given to me when he was 6. He is challenged, and challenging at the age of 22. He is also very refreshing. His thoughts, words and deeds can often surprise. His "limitations" more often than not provide unique insights. His literal understanding of language and other concepts can be a real eye opener. His heart is large.

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My daughter sometimes claims she doesn't want any children. When I ask her why, she says they take up too much time and are such an awesome responsibility.

Fearing I had given her the idea that she and her brothers were burdens, I further questioned her about whether or not it appeared that way to her from anything I had said and done. She said no, but that she see's and knows what I put into being a Mom and she isn't sure she could do it because she is too selfish.

My answer: I'm the one being selfish. I get so much more from them than I could ever give back.

No regrets.

Thanks msolga for this topic. Like you, I have never felt the slightest urge to have or raise children. Strangely enough most kids seem to like me and I can entertain them for a while if I want, but I quickly get tired of it. I don't really relate to them.

What annoys me, though, is that many people see that as a flaw. You never see parents having to explain why on earth they wanted kids, yet time and again I have to defend my NOT wanting them. Being very upfront about definitely not wanting children has also been a serious handicap in finding a partner, but I did finally find one who was not ambivalent about it (and she also happened to be very kind, smart and beautiful, so we have been happily married ever since).

Funny detail: I work in education too...

Do you think there's something in this, Paaskynen?

That IS very interesting. Did you study education in college Paaskynen or did you just fall into it (if that's possible) once you were finished with school?

do you think they relate to you because you treat them as adults? I've never gone in for baby talk, always talking as though they are capable of understanding, though obviously pitching the level appropriately. I like children who can hold a conversation.

Could well be. I can't remember for sure about my own teachers, but I think that a number of them was childless (though I can't know whether that was a matter of choice). And even if that was so, I have no idea whether the number of child-free individuals in education is any higher than in the population at large.

A fact is anyway that child numbers are lower in the more highly educated strata of society. I have the impression that for some of the lower educated girls that I have met, having a child gives them a great sense of accomplishment, something which educated people can achieve through other means.

Do you think that perhaps because we can exercise our drive to educate and raise children on our pupils/students, we therefore have less urge to produce any of our own?

I have to go put up some wallpaper, but I'll be back to respond when I get the chance.

Great stories :-D

I've read the entire thread, and some of the stories bring tears to my eyes and others make me laugh...I always thought about having children but fear and selfishness kept me from having any...(that and a hysterectomy)...I was afraid that I would abuse my children like i had been abused and all the anger that i have in my life would be visited upon the innocent...I do enjoy other peoples children and most children seem to tolerate me :-)...i have better luck with newborns...they tend to like my soft belly to sleep on ...:-) but i already live my life in "what if's" ...some things are just not meant to be...

I think there might be something in that, Paaskynen. I've received a great deal of pleasure & satisfaction (& some pain & disappointment, too! ) as a result of working closely with adolescents over a number years. As much as I've been very fond of them, I haven't had any illusions about children as a result of my experience. They can be very rewarding, but extremely demanding at the same time. Also, teaching involves a fair bit of nurturing. Maybe, because of this, I haven't felt the need to nurture children of my own.

My father works as a family doctor in a relatively deprived neighbourhood. He certainly sees many teenage pregnancies and I have discussed with him the reasons for this.

Clearly, there is a certain recklessness about the possibility of having a child at such a young age. I think this springs from the lack of alternative purpose in life (which many who post on this forum gain from education, working "career path" or even travel).

To gain purpose and unquestioning love of a child is an idealised way of removing such girls from a low social status but (in preventing concentration on full-time education and training) re-inforces the societal trap in which they find themselves.

For those who understand they have more to lose, choices tend to reflect caution that they may "lose the opportunity" of education, a career, and much more self-determination...including fertility and choice of when to have children.

KP

I've often expressed this same opinion, pete. It stands to reason that if a young girl has dreams and goals, the chances of her getting pregnant and sabotaging those dreams are slimmer.

There is a Chinese saying that goes something like this

If you want to live 1 generation, have a child
If you want to live for 4 generations, plant a tree
If you want to live forever, educate someone

We are already immortal, what do we need kids for?

I'm actually surprised by the number of posters who haven't had children. I thought I was one of the very few who chose not to have any. It is interesting to hear the feelings of other people on this issue. I myself never wanted children - I always told people this when I was younger and they all said, ah you say that now ..... Well that maternal bug never bit and now those same people are resigned to the fact that I will not be having any offspring. It was a matter of ambivalence and circumstances. I was never really excited about the thought of having a child and reasoned that if I didn't get excited over the prospect then it would be unfair to be careless and bring a potentially unwanted child into the world. On the other hand I do believe (and perhaps a little fat-headed of me to think so) I would have made a good mother. I have much love to give and I believe I would have been a firm but fun mom. I sometimes think on it and wonder but I still don't have an aching desire to do so. I do wonder am I missing out and believe yes I am since I do think that family is so important, but I never met a man who I wanted to father my child and made a conscious decision that if I couldn't make a child with all the love in my heart with another who felt the same then it would never be.

Plus those things are frickin' messy and they have tantrums. I'm used to being the only one in my world like that.

they are they are