Blacks and women celebrate Condi Rice.

(Lots more got in there, "But we do!" was in response to Foxfyre's about condemnation.)

Just trying to keep Foxfyre happy:

Kinda racist to say that minorities are beginning to see the light and move on over to the republican side of the aisle. On the other hand, dems have short-changed many minorities with little more than token afirmation. All of which brings me back to the realization of why I am a liberal instead of a dem or rep.

I saved the best for last, ladies:



We now return you to your regularly scheduled indignation.

Kinda racist to say anything about race, eh?

I subscribe to the belief that anyone who can see, and knows what they look like, is racist to a degree. We all respond to differences in race, even if it is an unconscious positive (overcompensating) response.

But, you can take it way too far, on purpose.

Totally agree about the token stuff. Saw an article at some point in the campaign with quotes from lots of black people who lived in poor communities, see their politicians only when the politicians need their votes. Not when the voters need something. Wasn't a Democrat thing or a Republican thing, just a politician thing. If anything, I think that's an area where there's great hope, doing grass roots stuff, engaging the communities, showing them there's more than just baby-kissing going on. (And respect to PDiddie for doing that, despite the fun he's having baiting the Republican trio [Lash, Foxfyre, JW].)

Ha!

I actually like those last two cartoons, PDiddie. The first one isn't race-specific at all and encapsulates exactly what I worry about, policy-wise. Rice a diplomat? Eek.

And the second one is perfect for this whole thread.

So you approve of the stuff PDiddie is posting Soz? Would you approve of it if it was reflecting a Democrat candidate or appointee of any color?

What's with all the racist cartoons since I last visited this thread? Honestly, is political discussion becoming this tasteless?

edit: Some aren't racist, but the voodoo and Aunt Jemima stuff is in poor taste, to say the least.

We apparently gave up on good taste at sundown.

This is the same group that also saw no line being crossed by Kerry when he so callously mentioned Mary Cheney in the debate.

The same group that is so out of touch and out of step with the majority of people and consequently lost, even though they still cannot bring themselves to admit it.

What they cannot fathom is that Americans of all races should be outraged at the treatment of Dr. Rice. It is unacceptable.

We said "Enough!" this time and will say it again. They still don't get it.

I have replied to that already.

I have no problem condemning the kind of caricature PDiddie posted of Rice as that Aunt Jemima type (never heard of her, hadnt gotten previous references to it, but the picture speaks for itself really).

So, herewith. I've kinda stayed out of the US politics thing, stopped reading the American newspapers, only engage in the odd post on exit polls and the like here. So I hadnt seen stuff like the Aunt Jemima cartoon or the voodoo doll cartoon yet. But yeah - across the line, obviously.

Thats as in opposed to the Doonesbury cartoon, which again, as far as I remember (because it actually appeared quite some weeks ago) was part of a series in which GWB was depicted calling different politicians/cabinet members by varying belittling nicknames. Guess you could condemn that for childish GWB-ridiculing, but hardly for racism on the part of the cartoonist, hence why the only post I ever made on the "liberal cartoons" thread (the one that led Lash to call me someone who "encourages racism", apparently), pointed that out and pretty much nothing else.

Meanwhile, I'm also getting mighty tired of the equally collective pigeonholing/generalisation Lash is engaging in, turning every single ass hole, whether a liberTARIAN radio host or this Aunt Jem cartoonist, into "your average Dem[ocrat]". You have been doing this ad nauseam, Lash - you'll go as far as quoting a local libertarian radio host's remark and his state's liberal senator's condemnation and then "deducing" that the former proves what liberals are really like (ie, racist), whereas the latter, eh ... must be some exception. You actually based your entire argument until the last time I posted on that one example, oh and of course "hundreds" of Democrats whom you claim were chuckling, without naming any, quoting any, or linking any, and in the face of other references here (to the NYT and WaPo appraisals of Rice, for example) that suggested the opposite. You'll go as far as showing a racist caricature and quoting NAACP President Mfume's condemnation, and then off-handedly concluding that the two things together apparently shows "the Democrats" are racist ...

Dlowan's quote still very much applies to you.

(And anyone who seriously claims I "encourage racism" on the basis of what I posted here in this thread is otherwise in my book just way over the edge - both in terms of rationality and in terms of offensiveness, so I'm not even going to bother defending myself there.)

Oh, and echoing Soz on Michael Moore as well. Opinions about Michael Moore have been very mixed in the so-called liberal media as well.

There is a difference though, Nimh, in not supporting or holding a particular view be it racist or anything else, and giving the impression of tactic consent by virtue of silence or lack of condemnation.

I think therefore that Lash--I bet Lash is really getting tired of being talked about here--is not accusing all liberals or every Democrat of holding racist or other unacceptable views but rather pointing out that those who do are not condemned or criticized with the same virulence as would be a Republican or conservative who did the same thing.

Take Sozobe (who I like very much) in her comments about PDiddie's posts. She didn't approve of all the posts, but she had no problem with PDiddie posting them--even enjoyed the baiting of Lash, JW, and myself. Had a conservative posted this kind of stuff re a Democrat candidate or appointment or whatever, and the howls of condemnation would have been deafening.

Conclusion: lack of condemnation is often interpreted as tactic if not overt approval. The Democrats in not condemning the unacceptable activities in their campaign gave the impression of consenting to it. That was what turned off a huge chunk of the electorate.

Foxfyre, what are you talking about?

I don't know how I could have been more pointed here:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1034349#1034349



I went on to say the last two didn't bother me because they weren't commenting merely on her race -- they had more content-oriented commentary. (The fact that she has said many things that make it unlikely she'll be an effective diplomat, and the fact that blacks and women are supposed to be enthused about her appointment, and are in fact trying, but it's hard to get enthusastic about this particular person.)

To break that down for you -- criticizing a public figure solely or overwhelmingly in terms of her race = no. Criticizing a public figure based on actual issues = sure. I'm never going to call for a complete cessation of all criticism of public figures, especially political figures, no matter what party they belong to.

Yes you did disapprove the racists posts Sozobe, and I believe you were sincere in that. I do not think you are racist in any sense and I think you don't condone racism. But while you disapproved the racist overtones, you didn't project that you really had a problem with PDiddie projecting that image though. In fact you followed up with a post:



It gives the impression that you were actually enjoying it. I think I've developed a fairly accurate impression of you that you're intellectually honest, sincere in your beliefs, and are not a hate mongerer in any sense. But it is difficult for many people to actually take a stand against something wrong when it is in their own family, church, political party or whatever. Because the Democrats have not taken a stand against the truly objectionable things in their campaign and made no effort to counter them with different values, right or wrong the entire party gets tarred with the anti-American-values brush and that includes patronizing and or blatantly racist views toward conservative minority appointees.

Your impression was inaccurate.

"Respect to PDiddie" was for the grassroots work he has done. Respect -- "DESPITE" the silliness he was engaging in here. Translation -- NOT respect for the silliness he was engaging in here.

("Yuck, PDiddie" and "I have a feeling that'll piss me off too" doesn't project that I had a problem with PDiddie projecting that impression??? <shaking head>)

(If I were a Republican I'd probably be saying something here about partisan blinders not allowing you to see the most obvious things...)

Your last sentence is a collection of rather mind-boggling generalizations -- I'll take nimh's lead and just ask that you provide something arguable (stats, quotes).

I'll just point you to the results of the November 2 election Sozobe. We have an increasingly unpopular war on our hands, a president with high negatives, and a majority of Democrats in the country. And yet at the national, state, and local levels, Republicans did very very well. Not partisan blinders, maybe, but I think we may be seeing a case of denial here. Whatever image the Democrats are projecting isn't working all that well. And this latest flap with Condi Rice and other conservative minority appointments isn't helping either.

What denial, Foxfyre?

You say that I "had no problem with PDiddie posting them--even enjoyed the baiting of Lash, JW, and myself.

I said, uh, not so much, and pointed to evidence.

You said that while I "disapproved the racist overtones, you didn't project that you really had a problem with PDiddie projecting that image though, " and that "It gives the impression that you were actually enjoying it."

I said, uh, not so much, and pointed to evidence.

You point to the November 2nd election. :-?

Okaayyyy...

You asked me for stats/evidence to support my last sentence. I gave you the November 2 election.