The Ultimate Mass Murderer

McGentrix wrote:

Lightwizard wrote:
I don't think we have to look very hard for the real bullshitter around here.

Nope. Sure don't.

ayuh, ya shore got that straight, son...

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/image/12/107774_bushmiddlefinger.jpg

a man of faith. and "values"...

Laughing

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... and a swell sense of humor!

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McGentrix wrote:

... and a swell sense of humor!

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That was a typo, he meant to write " a swill sense of humor."

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http://hamilton.indymedia.org/usermedia/image/12/1_EvilBW.jpg

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I notice several things you didn't mention.

One of those things was the identity of the guy who the people who weren't supporting Hitler in the 30s (including virtually all democrats and "progressives") were supporting:

http://college.hmco.com/history/west/mosaic/chapter15/images/stalin.jpg

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For those who don't read Russian:

Quote:

Under the leadership of the great Stalin, Forward to Communism!!

One of those great leftist ideas which didn't work out too well in the real world.

A modern Russian would more likely say 'rukovoditelstvo' than 'voditelctvo', which appears in the poster.

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OutoftheSky wrote:

All this seems to point to this guy...

http://www.allstarz.org/kevinbacon/012.jpg

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that's funny, mcg

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Finally, a genuine funny from McG. I'm flabbergasted (no Michael Moore fat jokes, please). But, as usual, Gunga's din is just a lot of noise.

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Quote:

I'd have pardoned them too and not lost a minute's sleep over it nor even mentioned it at confession if I were a catholic.

The basic reality of the contra drug running operation is roughly as follows:

Ike told JFK right there on the dias at JFK's innaugeration not to get involved in any sort of land wars in Asia. The extent to which JFK, LBJ, and other democrats listened to that good advice is history.

Ronald Reagan in sharp contrast to JFK, LBJ et. al., understood that you play geopolitical games with petty cash and a few handsfull of professional soldiers and soldiers of fortune, and not with tens of thousands of draftees and vast sums of treasure. And please don't try to insult anybody's intelligence by trying to compare Iraq to VietNam. Iraq is a legitimate act of self defense after Saddam Hussein poisoned the US senate office building with anthrax.

Reagan decided the time was right to eliminate communism in the Americas, and sought the petty cash with which to do that, and the democrat congress refused to give him the petty cash. Thereupon, Reagan instructed George HW Bush and Ollie North to fix the problem, and spare him (Reagan) the details of what was involved. Finding a corrupt pervert and lunatic in the governor's mansion of Arkansas, HW, Ollie, and the corrupt pervert lunatic (Slick Clinton) thereafter established something like the old three-way trade of colonial times, in which arms moved south and drugs moved north on the return trip of medium-sized cargo planes flying out of the Mena airport in Arkansas.

Which of course is why Slick Clinton hasn't been arrested, tried, and hanged for his many perverted crimes under the Bush administration. The Bush family clearly views Clinton as a former employee gone bad.

As to George W. Bush, basically, nobody in this world gets to choose his parents in life. All any of us can ever do is play the hand we're dealt as best possible, and W. appears to me to be doing that, which is a hell of a lot better than we had going for us between 92 and 2000. Granted many republicans might prefer somebody like Ike or Abe Lincoln as president, Ike or Lincoln would not be able to win against the unholy alliance of forces which would now be arrayed against them in elections, and without the resources of one of America's patrician families.

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Gunga, You stated that everything youve learned about bird and ddt is through your "Buddy" who claimed that Heeinz Meng stated that perigrines were going extinct because of hunting. I staated that your buddy is filling your head with crap. this book , a well documented and vetted story about the ddt /peregrine connection , actually includes Heinz meng as one of the contributing authors. If he felt that hunting contributed to bird deaths , or habitaat loss contributed, Im OK with that , but you really must begin to try to understand what study went into the issue before you put down the scientists who discoveered the relationships about loss of aall kinds of birds of prey. Eagles because they eat fish, which bioaccumulate ddt and pcb, and peregrines"the duck hawk" also eat bioacumulated pcb and ddt.
The recovery of eagles and peregrines coincides markedly to the time that ddt and pcb were limited and discontinued. This is the cover of the book, and the names of a bunch of respected ornithologists who contributed,.
The Peregrine Project

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Quote:

I staated that your buddy is filling your head with crap.

Your source doesn't really say anything aboutMeng making any sort of a statement about DDT and I don't see anything like that on the web; nonetheless my buddy was there and got it from the horse's mouth, both from Meng and a couple of other experts.

A better source would be:

http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm#ref8

Quote:

#

VIII. Peregrine falcons

DDT was blamed for the decline in the peregrine falcon population.

#

The decline in the U.S. peregrine falcon population occurred long before the DDT years.

[Hickey JJ. 1942. (Only 170 pairs of peregrines in eastern U.S. in 1940) Auk 59:176; Hickey JJ. 1971 Testimony at DDT hearings before EPA hearing examiner. (350 pre- DDT peregrines claimed in eastern U.S., with 28 of the females sterile); and Beebe FL. 1971. The Myth of the Vanishing Peregrine Falcon: A study in manipulation of public and official attitudes. Canadian Raptor Society Publication, 31 pages]

#

Peregrine falcons were deemed undesirable in the early 20th century. Dr. William Hornaday of the New York Zoological Society referred them as birds that "deserve death, but are so rare that we need not take them into account."

[Hornaday, WT. 1913. Our Vanishing Wild Life. New York Zoological Society, p. 226]

#

Oologists amassed great collections of falcon eggs.

[Peterson, RT. 1948. Birds Over American, Dodd Mead & Co., NY, pp 135-151; Rice, JN. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 155-164; Berger, DD. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 165-173]

#

The decline in falcons along the Hudson River was attributed to falconers, egg collectors, pigeon fanciers and disturbance by construction workers and others.

[Herbert, RA and KG Herbert. 1969. In Peregrine Falcon Populations, Univ. Of Wisconsin Press, pp 133- 154. (Also in Auk 82: 62-94)]

#

The 1950's and 1960's saw continuing harassment trapping brooding birds in their nests, removing fat samples for analysis and operating time-lapse cameras beside the nests for extended periods of time), predation and habitat destruction.

[Hazeltine, WE. 1972. Statement before Secretary of State's Advisory Committee on United Nations Conference on the Human Environment, March 16, 1972; Enderson, JH and DD Berger. 1968. (Chlorinated hydrocarbons in peregrines from Northern Canada). Condor 70:149-153; Enderson, JH.. 1972. (Time lapse photography in peregrine nests) Living Bird 11: 113- 128; Risebrough, RW. 1970. (Organochlorines in peregrines and merlins migrating through Wisconsin). Canadian Field-Naturalist 84:247-253]

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Changes in climate (higher temperatures and decreasing precipitation) were blamed for the gradual disappearance of peregrines from the Rocky Mountains.

[Nelson, MW. 1969. Peregrine Falcon Populations, pp 61-72]

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Falconers were blamed for decimating western populations.

[Herman, S. 1969. Peregrine Falcon Populations, University of Wisconsin Press]

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During the 1960's, peregrines in northern Canada were "reproducing normally," even though they contained 30 times more DDT, DDD, and DDE than the midwestern peregrines that were allegedly extirpated by those chemicals.

[Enderson, JH and DD Berger. 1968. (Chlorinated hydrocarbons in peregrines from Northern Canada) Condor 70:170-178]

#

There was no decline in peregrine falcon pairs in Canada and Alaska between 1950 and 1967 despite the presence of DDT and DDE.

[Fyfe, RW. 1959. Peregrine Falcon Populations, pp 101-114; and Fyfe, RW. 1968. Auk 85: 383-384]

#

The peregrine with the very highest DDT residue (2,435 parts per million) was found feeding three healthy young.

[Enderson, JH. 1968. (Pesticide residues in Alaska and Yukon Territory) Auk 85: 683]

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Shooting, egg collecting, falconry and disruption of nesting birds along the Yukon River and Colville River were reported to be the cause of the decline in peregrine falcon population.

[Beebe, FL. 1971. The Myth of the Vanishing Peregrine Falcon: A study in manipulation of public and official attitudes. Canadian Raptor Society Publication, 31 pages; and Beebe, FL. 1975. Brit Columbia Provincial Museum Occas. Paper No. 17, pages 126-144]

#

The decline in British peregrine falcons ended by 1966, though DDT was as abundant as ever. The Federal Advisory Committee on Pesticides concluded "There is no close correlation between the declines in populations of predatory birds, particularly the peregrine falcon and the sparrow hawk, and the use of DDT."

[Wilson report. 1969. Review of Organochlorine pesticides in Britain. Report by the Advisory Committee on toxic chemicals. Department of Education and Science]

#

During 1940-1945, the British Air Ministry shot about 600 peregrines (half the pre-1939 level) to protect carrier pigeons.

#

Peregrine falcon and sparrow hawk egg shells thinned in Britain prior to the use of DDT.

[Redcliff, DH. 1967. Nature 215: 208-210; Redcliff, DH. 1970 J Applied Biology 7:67; and Redcliff, DH. 1967. Nature 215: 208-210]

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NOTE CAREFULLY THE DATES THAT THESE WERE PUBLISHED. (In the 1960's and 1970's0 the ability to determine aaccuraate levels of DDT in eggs was not there. they did very crude gC's on residue of eggs and were unnable to determine that the egg calcium absorption was interfered with by DDT and DDE. So your junk science really is junk.
Also, the article about killing peregrines to save pigeons pRECEEDED the precipitous drop in peregrine populations and it wsnt until ddt was finally banned in England that they began recovering at all. (Please refer to the population date charts normatized for parts of the world , this's in the Peregrine project)

Countries that had peregrines but didnt use much outdoor DDT suffered no ill effects on the peregrine populations in that country, even though hunting and egg collecting occured in Victorian times

the redcliff (1969) paper about the occurence of peregrine egg thinning is a smoking gun. in 1967 they could barely detect such organics in the small environmental levels that interfere with calcium metabolism,, DDT was in use since the 40s , so this article seem s to agree that egg shell thinning was occuring in the 60's WWOOOPS.

Please try to be a more critical reader..

PS the fyfe report sated that peregrines in Caanada did not appear to decline until after 1969. There are actually a number of species of PEregrine in Cnada (the name meanss "wanderer") They travel into the Andes for periods of the year aand , as each generation was handed a "body durden" of ddt tthey too began to decline.

The mystery of all this is, if what you say is even partly true, why have peregrines, eagles, other BOP and pelicans all recovered quickly coincident with the decline and termination of use of DDT?? any ideas that makee more sense? eagles are still being hunted here in PA, LAst year alone 1 guy was fined and jailed for killing over 30 eagles for some Native American "ceremony " that needed fresh eagles. (Im sorry, where his religious rights mess with mine and the eagles, hes gonna have to become Lutheran or omething). All these egg hunting, eagle killing stories dontt hold water in light of the recovery of the birds.

this junk science site is not credible science. Its mostly a joke. (sort of like Creationism if I might put in a plug)
Upon close inspection , you would perhaps find that a number of authors (hazeltine et al) actually worked for "Toll manufacturers" who made DDT for the major chemical companies. talk about fair and balanced, also many resaerchers published for poultry science where ddt was used for lice and othe insects

REAAD SOME OF THE LATER CREDIBLE WORK. Chemical dose data from the early 70's might as well have been run in the stone age. Technical QA requirements and good lab practice hadnt even caught up with the average environmental lab until the late 70s at the learliest.
you will find a number of college enviro chem texts that state that until about the late 80's much analyses by commercial labs (who actually do enviro sampling0 were unable to detect to the PPB level and poorly at the PPM level. reproducability, accuracy , and QA aaall were questionaable .ePA didnt come out with its first SUperfund QA requirements manuals until about 1982.

so to find that the lightest egg shells contained the least ddt residue wasnt uncommon, think about it, they measured bulk residue in a bulk matrix. If the ppms were the same but the weight of shells differed, then the lightest shells look cleaner. they didnt even know that they screwed up in the old days.
i i would love to have anybody of sound mind read http;//www.junkscience.com and then come away with anything but howling laughter. Thee only thing missing is aa cartoon section.
some things that junk science is arguing

HIV doesnt cause aids

Evolution is hokum

stem cell research is not needed.

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I knew that, sooner or later, somebody was going to say Gunga's Din....

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farmerman wrote:

Please try to be a more critical reader..

Why? I mean, I'm not the one who's just had his whole case shot to pieces; you are.

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gunga is having another wish dream.

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gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Ike told JFK right there on the dias at JFK's innaugeration not to get involved in any sort of land wars in Asia.

strange. considering eisenhower sent the first observers in to vietnam.

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gunga, too, is a piece of god's work.

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blatham wrote:

gunga, too, is a piece of god's work.

aye, that he is.

i think he's gettin' off on it, too.

"hey ! lookit me ! i am outrageous!!!

probably best to ignore him.

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