I would like very much for this to become a serious discussion. The topic is important and interesting.
The title of the thread makes it hard.
Posts like this;
I'm not "idolizing death and violence". I'm merely pointing out the fact that idiot yuppie leftist pseudoscientists managed to kill ninety million people in a single perverted beaurocratic move.
from gungasnake make it hard.
Constant reference to, (The Kings Of), junkscience.com make it hard.
But I'll stick around..... see where it goes.
So I'm sure everyone that cares has probably seen this but there is an interesting piece about the founder of junkscience HERE.
But one close look a TASSC's record will show a different picture. TASSC officials have regularly criticised highly-recognised and perfectly legitimate studies ranging from the quality of drinking water to the safety of baby food. TASSC claims that these adverse health reports are based on dubious science and are employing scare tactics to drum up financial support -- but they don't reveal where their own funding support comes from. In fact, it comes from Phillip Morris and other major US organisations with pollution and health problems.
Like all good public relations, the strength of the message being sold depends to a very large degree on the credibility of the organisation. Credibility is best promoted by merging genuine and fake claims, with the legitimate information blended carefully with the skillfully-crafted backlash material. When credibility has been established though a list of reputable scientists acting as advisors, it steadily becomes easier to make a claim of "junk-science" stick.
This is Milloy's particular skill. He is the best in the PR profession at blending legitimate criticism of bad science (and there's plenty around) with illegitimate criticism of science that is against his clients financial interests.
TASSC's scientists/members lend their names to the organisation on the basis that it's mission is purely one of advancing good scientific practice. They do so in the belief that TASSC is closely associated with government and environmental groups. Of course, that's not the whole story, but most of the scientists don't know that. Nor do the media, who are equally gullible.
Oh indeed, Adrian - Gunga's offensiveness makes it hard to debate any of his topics in a reasonable manner - and, indeed, this one may be beyond help.
I just thought it worth a try for two reasons - one being that it IS an interesting topic, and the second that these sorts of threads (whether from loony right, or loony left) are such an insult to rational discussion that I find it a sort of a fun challenge to battle this level of "debate" by trying to "reclaim" such a thread from time to time.
It is also, I think, worth exposing such stuff to the light of rational evidence. And one learns stuff!
For instance, I am off to check your link about the Junkscience site.
Edit: That's an interesting site, Adrian - do you have a link to the whole site? Later - got it!!!