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David Horowitz: Democrats are the party of hate

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 02:29 pm
@maxdancona,
Google La Raza in the images section.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 02:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Quote:

La Raza marches are something different and please don't try and suggest they are not.



I have participated in such marches. I have taken my kids. What do you know about them?

NCLR (colloquially known as "La Raza") is a civil rights organization. They are fairly moderate. They give out scholarships. They organize pro-immigrant marches... but even on immigration they are moderate (left of center, but moderate).

I assume you agree that Americans are free to go to a march if we want to.... La Raza marches are actually kind of fun, and I think they are effective at energizing voters.

La Raza marches to me are probably the same as NRA marches are to other Americans. I am just as American as they are... and that is my point.

For the record, I am racially and ethnically as White as they come, mostly Northern European with one branch that is Jewish (via Italy). My kids are Hispanic-American, and identify as such.


Quote:
Google La Raza in the images section.


I did. I don't know what your point is.

That google search shows some White Nationalist propaganda that is obsessed with the term "La Raza". This includes a site that proclaiming Mexico has started "it's invasion & takeover of the Southwestern United States". (And I am being very patient here, this is really not a point I should have to make).

The site for the civil rights group colloquially called "La Raza" is here.

www.nclr.org

Any pictures you find there are representative of the organization.

Again, I have participated in Marches with NCLR. I know what I am talking about.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 03:01 pm
@maxdancona,
So the big bad White Nationalists counterfeited La Raza posters?

Your insistence that there is nothing objectionable one micrometer to the left is growing tiresome.

The NCLR may be something different or it may just be a front. You do know such things occur don't you?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 03:08 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
So the big bad White Nationalists counterfeited La Raza posters?


Find me a "La Raza" poster.... preferably from the La Raza site (www.nclr.org), and then we can discuss it. Or, if it is not from the La Raza site, let's see what site it is from and what else they are selling.

I will take this challenge. Do you deny that some pretty ugly White Nationalist sites are posting propaganda images on the topic?

I, as a White guy with a Hispanic family have been to these marches. I can tell you what I saw there.

Please, post a link to an example.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 03:11 pm
@maxdancona,
I am a "White Guy" who married a latina and had three kids who all share her heritage so spare me the crap.

My latina wife, btw, is further to the right than me.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 03:13 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I have no problem with that Finn. I accept you as an American. I accept your wife as an American no matter how far right she is.

What I am objecting to is the narrow view of what it means to be American that rejects certain groups (especially groups that my family is a part of).

I am the one here arguing for a more inclusive America.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 04:28 pm
@maxdancona,
There is a difference between being inclusive and being suckers
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 05:23 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

There is a difference between being inclusive and being suckers


This sounds like it should be clever. But, I don't even know what it means.

Are you saying there is some plot?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:09 pm
@maxdancona,
Plot? No.

There are groups who wish to take advantage of the generosity of America.

Are they the norm in terms of immigration? No, but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that there is anything to be criticized if it can be attached to a "liberal" label.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Except of course feminism.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:27 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
There are groups who wish to take advantage of the generosity of America.

Are they the norm in terms of immigration? No, but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that there is anything to be criticized if it can be attached to a "liberal" label.


My main point here is that groups that are started, managed and supported by Americans are American. This is true whether this group is La Raza, or the NRA. I have no trouble saying that these groups are equally American in spite of the fact that I agree with one politically much of the time and disagree with the other most of the time.

They are both American groups. My main point in this discussion is that demonizing people, ideas, and cultural practices as "non-American" bothers me. The presupposition here is that there is a group of Americans who judge who belongs and who doesn't belong (legal citizenship be damned).

Quote:
No, but you don't seem to be able to acknowledge that there is anything to be criticized if it can be attached to a "liberal" label.


This is awfully close to ad hominem. And it is demonstrably wrong. Would you like a list of areas where I disagree with liberals? (this list would include GMOs and political correctness/free speech... and I have mixed feelings about religious liberty where I have to concede that religious conservatives have a point).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:41 pm
@maxdancona,
An "American" group that promotes the idea that gringos need to leave California are not "American"

Anyone who legally comes to this country belongs here.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
An "American" group that promotes the idea that gringos need to leave California are not "American"


I agree with that. That isn't NCLR (commonly known as "La Raza"). I know, because I am a "gringo" who has worked with them on political issues I care about.

Is there a difference between a group that promotes the idea that gringos need to leave California, and a Black group the promotes the idea that Whites need to leave? And is this any different from a White group that promotes the idea that Muslims need to leave?

Of all the four groups which do you think is the largest?

I don't like any of them (although any American group has free speech rights).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:53 pm
@maxdancona,
There's no difference and I have no idea which is largest...but I suspect you do.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:58 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Anyone who legally comes to this country belongs here.


We agree on that (assuming that "legally comes" includes those of us who were born here). Of course this number includes people who are bilingual and proud, people who call themselves Asian-Americans, or Italian Americans and Mexican-Americans, and people who have some differing views on immigration. It also includes racists (of many racial backgrounds) and gun lovers, and socialists and fundamentalists.

If you can agree with me that Americans (as defined by "legally American") are equal whether they are members of the NRA or La Raza (or both?)... then we can resolve this issue.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 06:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yeah, I don't have data, but I strongly suspect that the number of White people trying to push out Muslims dwarfs any other of these groups. Certainly that is the case in this forum.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 07:01 pm
@maxdancona,
Hardly a scientific sample.

They are all are all loathsome and none more so for their numbers. which in any case are relatively small.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Sun 7 May, 2017 08:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Why do you feel Muslim dwarfs are any more likely to be pushed out than regular sized Muslims? Are you a sizist now?
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 8 May, 2017 03:05 am
La Raza, heh. Seems they were inspired by Hitler's concept of a superior race, eh?

Quote:
The words “La Raza” (Spanish for “The Race”) in NCLR's name have long been a source of considerable controversy. Critics claim that the name reflects an organizational commitment to racial separatism and race-based grievance mongering.

By NCLR's telling, however, such critics have mistranslated the word “Raza.” According to NCLR, “the full term,” which was coined by the Mexican scholar (and Mexican secretary of public education) José Vasconcelos (1882-1959), is “la raza cósmica,” meaning “the cosmic people.” NCLR describes this as “an inclusive concept” whose purpose is to express the fact that “Hispanics share with all other peoples of the world a common heritage and destiny.”

NCLR's interpretation of Vasconcelos's explanation, however, is inaccurate. "The concept of La Raza can be traced to the ideas and writings of Jose Vasconcelos, the Mexican theorist who developed the theory of la raza cosmica (the cosmic or super race) at least partially as a minority reaction to the Nordic notions of racial superiority. Vasconelos developed a systematic theory which argued that climatic and geographic conditions and mixture of Spanish and Indian races created a superior race. The concept of La Raza connotes that the mestizo [of mixed race, usually the child of a person of Spanish descent and an American Indian] is a distinct race and not Caucasian, as is technically the case.

In short, Vasconcelos was not promoting "an inclusive concept," but rather, the notion of Hispanic racial superiority. Mark Krikorian of the nonpartisan Center for Immigration Studies has explained, further, that Vasconcelos advanced his "la raza" ideas in the 1920s, the same period during which Nazism was gaining steam in Germany. Communist Party member Maclovio Barraza (1927-1980) was yet another influential figure in the founding of NCLR. To this day, the organization commemorates Barraza's “achievements” by giving out an “Award for Leadership” that is named after him.

It has been widely reported that NCLR's official motto is “Por La Raza Todo, Fuera de La Raza Nada,” which means “For The Race Everything, Outside the Race Nothing.”


Many more details about this racist outfit here, eh?:

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/printgroupProfile.asp?grpid=153



0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Mon 8 May, 2017 03:47 am
Black professor Thomas Sowell on multi-culturalism:



0 Replies
 
 

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