0
   

Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:45 am
edgarblythe wrote:
Liberalism was set up by the Great Depression, a catastrophe which leveled the rich and poor to virtually the same playing field. It was a time when people were forced by circumstance to realize that no person is an island. Roosevelt's programs were for the most part a reflection of that. As succeeding generations become distanced from the Depression the more they revert to pre-Great Depression values, helped along by the liberal Democrats' abuse of their own power. People have reverted to their own natural selfish ways. What will it take to give liberalism a new start? Probably a catastrophe of like proportions. Which is not to say the liberals are wrong, necessarily, but they have the antiquated nature thing to overcome. Progress is always dragged down by societies not yet evolved in their thinking. It may be a few hundred years or more before humankind as a whole catches up to true progressive thinking.


As I've read it, there had been two or three depressions prior to that of the 30s which were just as bad, and the economy recovered within a year or a year and a half on its own as politicians watched. In other words, there is every reason to believe that Roosevelt's policies extended the depression for the better part of a decade unnecessarily.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:46 am
gungasnake wrote:
edgarblythe wrote:
Liberalism was set up by the Great Depression, a catastrophe which leveled the rich and poor to virtually the same playing field. It was a time when people were forced by circumstance to realize that no person is an island. Roosevelt's programs were for the most part a reflection of that. As succeeding generations become distanced from the Depression the more they revert to pre-Great Depression values, helped along by the liberal Democrats' abuse of their own power. People have reverted to their own natural selfish ways. What will it take to give liberalism a new start? Probably a catastrophe of like proportions. Which is not to say the liberals are wrong, necessarily, but they have the antiquated nature thing to overcome. Progress is always dragged down by societies not yet evolved in their thinking. It may be a few hundred years or more before humankind as a whole catches up to true progressive thinking.


As I've read it, there had been two or three depressions prior to that of the 30s which were just as bad, and the economy recovered within a year or a year and a half on its own as politicians watched. In other words, there is every reason to believe that Roosevelt's policies extended the depression for the better part of a decade unnecessarily.


WWII marked the end of the depression, IMO.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:51 am
Larry434 wrote:
"Can a people that believes more fervently in the Virgin Birth than in evolution still be called an Enlightened nation?"

But of course. Both are theories...one is the Theory of Evolution, another a matter of faith in divine intervention of the Creator.

Neither has been conclusively proven right or wrong.

BTW, I personally favor the Theory of Evolution, but that is just my opinion.


The idea of virgin birth requires only one miracle. The theory of evolution requires an endless sea of miracles, outright violations of probabilistic laws.
A theory which required one or two such miracles in the entire history of the planet might still be worth listening to, but evolutionism isn't. Evolution(ism) basically stands everything we know about modern mathematics and probability theory on its head.

In fact during the last 50 years, a series of symposia were held at which a number of the world's best mathematicians tried to explain the nature of reality to evolutionists, and the latter are still in states of shock and denial:

http://www.pathlights.com/ce_encyclopedia/20hist12.htm

As Sir Fred Hoyle, one of the worlds best mathematicians put it,

Quote:

"The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a
number with 40,000 noughts after it... It is big enough to bury Darwin and
the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this
planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random,
they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence."

Sir Fred Hoyle
Nature, Nov 12, 1981, p. 148
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 06:57 am
Larry434 wrote:
blatham wrote:
Statistic of the Day...

In the election of 2004, more people voted to remove President Bush than has been the case with any other president in history.


And, 3.5 million more voted to retain him than remove him and he won the electoral vote by a 6.5% margin.




Given the magnitude of the shot the dems took at W. this time out, including a solid years worth of constant, total drumbeat on all of the major media, tens of millions of dollars worth of aid from Soros and his band of billionaires, two billion worth of free marketing in the total connivance of the mainstream media up to and including faking the exit polls in a last desparte attempt to suppress republican voting, outspending the GOP something like 10-1 in those 527 organizations, I'd call this one a super mandate. Run this same election on a leval playing field and I'd expect W to win it 70/30.

Anything beyond the solid 30% of total losers who Hitler had in Germany and who the dems have in this country is not solid support for the dems or anything else. All the GOP would really need to turn an awful lot of the dem "base" would be to offer them more crack cocaine, Thunderbird, or NightTrain than the dems do.
0 Replies
 
Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:07 am
Gungasnake: My Father-in-Law, a very well read bibical and scientific scholar, explained the fossil record very simply.

The creator put them there to challenge our intellect.

He also cited that evolution required a violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-thermodynamics.html
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:08 am
The Great Depression was much worse than subsequent depressions because we were taken by surprise and didn't know how to deal with it. Perhaps we might have recovered quicker without Roosevelt's programs, perhaps not. Naturally an arrogant conservative will assert it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:19 am
Duplicate post. How did that happen??
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:20 am
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:31 am
Quote:
"The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one to a
number with 40,000 noughts after it... It is big enough to bury Darwin and
the whole theory of Evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this
planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random,
they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence."

Sir Fred Hoyle
Nature, Nov 12, 1981, p. 148


Good. Now did Fred figure out how many gods it took to do this production of life? Was it six or twenty or a number with 40,000 noughts after it? One, some say, but based on math? No. Based on faith. So let's stick with math. Got anyone with a formula that proves, or even attempts to prove, that there is only one purposeful intelligence.......?

At the bottom of all this is whether a person can understand complex ideas. If someone can only understand the simple (one miracle is all it takes) then they are stuck in the simple, but the possibilities in life are infinite and that's a much bigger concept then a puny number like X with 40, 000 naughts.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:40 am
Gunga, not meaning to get personal here but I am curious- In your neighborhood what direction does the sun appear to rise from?
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 07:58 am
LOL Dys...........but don't even try. It's useless anymore.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:01 am
Quote:
The contempt of the liberal elites...
I love reading that liberal are elitist especially when it comes from people who believe that only saved Christians are going to heaven. No elitist thinking there.

Quote:
One important indicator of intelligence in action is a demonstrable ability to assimilate and deal with emerging facts.

So how are those fundamentalist Christians doing with that assimilating and dealing thing? Moving and shaking? Growing? Changing? Or are they like our President who, at his recent press conference, said he would reach out to "...those who share our goals."? Uh, those would be the people already on your side, right?

I think it's important that people stick to their ideals and that they re-examine those ideals every once in awhile, hence the real purpose of this now hyjacked thread. I done some thinking in the past few days, after the headshaking and crying were done, and I still believe 1) the basic ideas of this administration -foreign policy- economic-domestic-environmental are flawed in varying degrees from disastrous to merely wack and 2) the liberal ideas in all those areas are not only superior, but more in line with the America ideals of equality, progress and human rights.

Our task is to express those ideas simply.

For us, complex is easy, simple is hard.

Joe Nation
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:10 am
Joe Nation wrote:

....I done some thinking in the past few days, after the headshaking and crying were done, and I still believe 1) the basic ideas of this administration -foreign policy- economic-domestic-environmental are flawed in varying degrees from disastrous to merely wack and 2) the liberal ideas in all those areas are not only superior, but more in line with the America ideals of equality, progress and human rights.

Our task is to express those ideas simply.

For us, complex is easy, simple is hard.


Then count yourself with Nancy Pelosi who said yesterday that more introspection and criticism of Democrat positions is not needed. Instead they must focus on doing a better job educating the public so it will better understand the wisdom of their views.


I don't call that intelligently dealing with new facts. I call it complacent, inward looking elitist prejudice and ignorance.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:22 am
gungasnake wrote:
blatham wrote:
Can a people that believes more fervently in the Virgin Birth than in evolution still be called an Enlightened nation?



Easily. The theory of evolution is a bunch of bullshit. A nation such as Haiti which believes in voodoo could be called enlightened compared to evolutionists.


What the hell is wrong with voodoo, you anti-religious bigot.
0 Replies
 
gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:27 am
I dabble in voodoo.

hmmm, where'd I put that gungasnake doll.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:28 am
http://www.coopstuff.com/Graphics/Sketch01/01-voodoo.jpg
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:28 am
Now, b, please try to remember that there is only one imaginary being controlling our every thought and those voodoo people believe there are hundreds. See? Simple is better. Complex is, well, complex.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:34 am
george hastily spat out...
Quote:
Then count yourself with Nancy Pelosi who said yesterday that more introspection and criticism of Democrat positions is not needed. Instead they must focus on doing a better job educating the public so it will better understand the wisdom of their views.


I don't call that intelligently dealing with new facts. I call it complacent, inward looking elitist prejudice and ignorance.


georgie

How might you get through a full Canadian winter day (they are quite short, of course, thus leaving more moonlit hours for romantic fireplaces and sodomy) without leaning heavily upon we liberal elites?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:46 am
Joe Nation wrote:

At the bottom of all this is whether a person can understand complex ideas. If someone can only understand the simple (one miracle is all it takes) then they are stuck in the simple, but the possibilities in life are infinite and that's a much bigger concept then a puny number like X with 40, 000 naughts.


I suppose I agree with this. A lot depends on the specific applications of this idea one deems to be appropriate. I can think of several simple ideas in the current political debate that are both suspect and yet avidly embraced by the "sophisticated (in their view) elites (but self-appointed)".

Some examples include;
Government controled single payer health care.
Government management of energy production, automobile design, etc.
Reliance on international forums for National security

Complex ideas include
Free markets
Individual choice of schools, products and services
Accepting the competitive nature of life and relations among people, tribes, and nations
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Nov, 2004 08:52 am
Joe Nation wrote:
Now, b, please try to remember that there is only one imaginary being controlling our every thought and those voodoo people believe there are hundreds. See? Simple is better. Complex is, well, complex.


You sound like a bigot when you say this.
0 Replies
 
 

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