Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

I believe that in the beginning there was me.....and that all life and processes of life spring from me.....I believe the planets and stars rotate around me.....that all lines of thought and urges good and bad emanate from me......it is the guiding principle of all life in the universe......this annoys the **** out of bush and all his supporters of course who were so sure it was him, and that annoys me but only mildly for I realize they know not what they do....

Those two maps, Blatham, are very similar.......amazing, isn't it? And what you said about the liberal social cultural movement of the 60s and the (now clandestine) counter movement is also thought provoking. As you point out:



but I don't reach quite the same conclusion you do here:



I don't view the counter-movement as anything other than a prime example of a cultural lag. Your point about the fallacy of the "conflict of values" truism of the day speaks exactly to this point.

I was thinking last night........maybe as I was falling into sleep......that the cultural movement of the sixties is still underway. Look at the percentage of young voters that not only voted, but also voted for Kerry. Now that we're enduring the repressive response to change , we can look to this Gen Y group to carry on. As members of the older, frightened group die off (along with the rest of us war-battered movers from the 60s), the younger group carries on.

An example of this is how unprejudiced the Gen Y group is. We fought for equal treatment of minorities. But none of our generation is as untouched by prejudice as is the younger generation. Not that prejudice doesn't exist in our children and grandchildren's generation, but they are amazingly less influenced by racial prejudice than are we. The times.........they are achangin.

I believe this movement forward, followed by reactionary repression followed by a resurgence of advanced social and political thought is the mechanism of change. So my "what to do" is to keep working and not lose hope (even though I'm discouraged and tired right now). The result of this election is frightening and we may be set back farther than I could ever have conceived would be possible ever again, but I believe the momentum is still there. It will come from our grandchildren (or our children, if we got started late.) I will fight on.

Thanks Blacksmittin for this thread. You have the right idea.

Annapolis Maryland is home to both the Naval Academy and St Jiohn's College, a bastion of liberal (but classical) education. I leaned on a few fledgling liberally elite candidates in those days, but did so lightly.

And this delightful Herb whose tender Green
Fledges the River's Lip on which we lean--
Ah, lean upon it lightly! for who knows
From what once lovely Lip it springs unseen!

(It was often useful to speak in melancholy tones of Shelly and Kafka on the way to paydirt, but one does what he must.)

And I know, george......you think of it differently.....but you're just an old fart with a wish to have it all. I'll get to you soon, right now, I have to eat breakfast.

george you silly goose, your beginning to sound like a nattering nabob of negitivity, I suspect your buyers remose wont set in for at least 6 months so put on a happy face and get some sun while it's still shinning. Remember it's always darkest before it turns completely black.

THAT was funny!! (my emoticons don't work or I would have used a few.)

I do have some reservations Dys, and now that the prospect of Kerry is off the screen, I am left with them to worry about. However, even at the darkest moment, a few minutes contemplation of the Boston poltroon at the helm, will releive me of any malaise that might arise.

What's wrong with Boston? And how do you figure Kerry for a coward?

Sometimes Lola sounds like Scarlet O'Hara.

An old fart, lost in Dys's complete darkness, looking for something nice to lean on. There are worse fates.

I think you need to have your hearing tested. What you are hearing is not the sound of a bigot, someone who holds to a principle no matter the evidence to contary, but someone who looks at the world openly and who welcomes the same openness from others.

What what wrong for the Dems?

Easy.

Wrong message.

Wrong method.

Wrong man.

All of which appear to fit an ongoing pattern.

Great job, Democrats. Keep it up, please. The Nation is counting on you.

george wrote:


Very funny george.........but there is a difference between me and Scarlet. She said she'd think about it tomorrow and I said I'd get to you later (after breakfast.)

As for Dyslexia's reference to your complete darkness.........you're not dead yet are ya? You look like you're kicking plenty to me.

Timber........stop the carping please. Say something of substance......I just know you have it in ya.

Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: 'bi-g&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices

You are not unique in your intolerance of religion or christianity in particular.

McG

Disbelief in religion or christianity is not the same thing as intolerance......and it certainly is not the same as a wish to avoid regressing into the dark ages. (refer please to Dyslexia's post to george.)

"Disbelief in religion or christianity is not the same thing as intolerance......and it certainly is not the same as a wish to avoid regressing into the dark ages. (refer please to Dyslexia's post to george.)

No but ridiculing and insulting those who do believe is.

When you belittle the beliefs of others it is. It's fine to disbelieve in anothers religion, I do it all the time, but to condemn a person's beliefs as being "simple" is the act of a bigot.

What was right with the National Socialists?
Right message.
Right method.
Right man.

Thanks Lola.

Ridiculing? Insulting? Moi? (Is it okay to speak French yet?) Non, non, mon ami, I believe everyone is entitled to hold as many ideas as I am. I was merely pointing out that simple is better for some people then holding more complex views, but that's not an insult, (in fact, now that I think about it, some of the yogis I've studied with would hold it as the better idea of the two.) A consequence of holding any idea is the chance that that idea will be held up for inspection by others. How the holder experiences the views of others regarding one's own views says a lot more about the holder than of the viewer.

I think both parties have held on to old beliefs that are slowly dying off. I keep hearing about the 60's and viet nam and some have even evoked the depression. Well those times are dead.

One of the things that turns me away from the right IS the religious fanatics. I grew up with religiously fanatic grandparents and have seen how cruel and mean they can be. The right obviously used them this election to help get Bush re-elected.

But the younger generations aren't like this. Sure there are going to be over religious people raised in over religious houses that are ALWAYS going to think gay marriage and abortion is bad but the MAJORITY of the younger generation do not think this way. I think of my self as a conservative person, but I don't oppose gay marriage, I want diversity and the religious nuts scare the hell out of me.

What has driven me away from the left is their attitude towards me. I think they have created a system that rewards irresponsibility. When my wife and I were in college both of our parents made to much money for financial aid and to little to actually help us through college. We worked our butts off to get through school racking up HUGE amounts of debt in students loans. When my wife went to the financial aid office to seek assistance for tuition next semester she was told, "Well, we can't really help you out because of your parents income but... if YOU had a dependent..."

Now what kind of world do we live in where a honest hard working RESPONSIBLE woman can not get financial aid because she ISN"T a single unwed mother?

She was raped as a young girl and activist judges, who are more concerned with the CRIMINALS rights then the VICTIMS rights, give lenient sentences to criminals in the name of "reforming them." In the mean time they are out on the streets, free as can be, to cause more harm on other women and their families.... but hey, at least the rapist was treated fairly.

While I understand the need for a woman's choice for abortion I think it should be used in a responsible manner... not a form of birth control. It is time people took responsibility for themselves. We (my wife and I) WANT kids but are responsible enough to NOT get pregnant because we know we can not afford it right now.

It seems both parties today want to tax the heck out of me and keep me poor enough to be dependent and working and rich enough to pay for their fat cat salaries, single unwed mothers college tuition, and a bloated welfare system that has done nothing but create generations of welfare dependent families.

What happened to the days where you got ahead by working hard?

We have an education system that is failing our students, crime is rising, income is not keeping up with inflation, in the name of FAIRNESS minorities are given ADVANTAGES because of the color of their skin (and in the same breath you tell me the color of ones skin isn't supposed to matter), the family structure is failing, people are unhappy, people are mad, kids are killing other kids, kids are giving birth to other kids... I could go on and on and on.

But every time I speak out I am chastise for not being sensitive to other peoples feelings. Or called a sheep and told I can't think for myself. Or called a racist. You cry that the country is divided and yell at me when I want to come in to your "Let Dems talk amongst themselves thread"... that's being real tolerant.

So go ahead and question my reading comprehension skills again... just remember when the majority of you are old and crusty and need help getting to the bathroom on time... it is MY generation that will be there to either help you or leave you on your own like you have left us.

We're still talking ab out John the gigolo Kerry, right??

That anybody could claim old John was the "right man" is astonishing.

John's baically just a worn-out old sixties hippy who impresses most Americans as a sixties version of Benedict Arnold. Which would be bad enough even if he ran on some sort of a logically coherent program, but the idiot leftwingers in the dem party forced him into a stance on the Iraq war which could not be defended logically and the guy ended up looking like the flopper fish in one of Fatty Arbuckle's old train movies.