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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

 
 
Synonymph
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:22 am
jespah wrote:
another might be Barack Obama



I have a Barack Obama '08 bumper sticker. It's not on my car yet. I've never used bumper stickers, and my car is a 2005....not sure I'm ready to plaster anything onto its pristine surface yet. Is there a way to turn bumper stickers into window clings?
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:27 am
Wow!!! How'd you find it, Jes? Mwah!

Quote:
RICK WARREN: Well, Gwen, as Jim pointed out, the Bible talks about lots of values, and there are social values, which have to do with justice and poverty and equality and things like that, and then there are personal values, which have to do with personal morality. And, historically, liberals have championed the social values, and conservatives have championed the personal morality values.


Well, the truth is the Bible talks about both of them, and if ever there was a candidate that really espoused both he'd probably get 80 - 90 percent of the vote because what people don't understand is there are a lot of people in America who really do believe the Bible, and they're not just "religious right" or "evangelical." There are Catholics and there are main line Protestants and there are many who voted in this election.

-snip-

[Wallis]So what could happen here, I think Rick's right, if there was a candidate running with a strong set of personal values and then was very pro-poor, questioned, like many evangelical theologians did this time, a theology of war, they said, emanating from the highest circles of power in the country, these are evangelicals who said this, there could be a whole different kind of response to a vision that had personal ethics, very strong, but then a social justice and a commitment to peace, as well. So this doesn't go left or right. It begins to build bridges between two constituencies.


Whatever happened this time, we knew that half the population would feel crushed by the result. So maybe there is - it becomes a kind of finding common ground. How do you do political healing around what the moral values are, not just one or two, but all of our values.


I think there was some really important stuff there. Obama seems to really embody the more wide-ranging values -- the social values as well as the personal morality values.

Obama or not, I think that's the way to go.
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:30 am
Maybe both coasts could re-colonize the center with surplus Democrats! I hear that the Plains states population figures are actually declining. And you could buy a palace for what you'd pay for a 2 bedroom shack in SoCal. Of course, on the downside, you'd have to live in friggin' Kansas....

Alright, so much for that idea!
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:35 am
Hell with this "moderate" stuff, what the dems need now more than ever is a solid liberal of the FDR ilk to really bring this nation together again. A new Elinore would be ideal.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:36 am
blacksmithn wrote:
Maybe both coasts could re-colonize the center with surplus Democrats! I hear that the Plains states population figures are actually declining. And you could buy a palace for what you'd pay for a 2 bedroom shack in SoCal. Of course, on the downside, you'd have to live in friggin' Kansas....

Alright, so much for that idea!


Say ... what's wrong with Kansas? At least we have weather patterns. It must be boring to live every day with sunshine and nice weather. Give me some snow every so often and a tornado or two thrown in for good measure. Beaches are overrated, I'm sure.
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rodeman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:45 am
Yeah Ticomaya, this damn sunshine and nice weather has bored me to tears for 57 years. And those damn beaches........who needs em?
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:49 am
rodeman wrote:
Yeah Ticomaya, this damn sunshine and nice weather has bored me to tears for 57 years. And those damn beaches........who needs em?


Exactly my point. At least I get to check the weather report to figure out if I need shorts and a t-shirt, or boots and a coat. Very exciting.

And no ugly mountains getting in the way of my view of the horizon, either!
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:52 am
Quote:
On Tuesday night, Mr. Rove succeeded, as Mr. Bush was re-elected with a margin of 3.5 million votes, in the first presidential election in modern history with an equal turnout of Democrats and Republicans. Mr. Rove's relentless focus on turning out more Republican voters, many of them evangelical Christians, was the critical factor in Mr. Bush's victory, Republicans said.

Other factors, Republicans said, were Mr. Bush's gamble to run on terrorism and his repeated use of a clear, concise message. And Bush campaign officials said they were helped by the man they called a dream opponent, Senator John Kerry, whose nuanced statements about Iraq gave them an opening, day after day, to attack him as a "flip-flopper."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/politics/campaign/04reconstruct.html?th

Here's what I think went wrong. Single focus Karl Rove, Ralph Reed and others are getting away with murder. They are selling a simple answer solution to many easily convinced voters. It's not enough to wish for a more intelligent, better informed electorate. We've got to get down home and simple and hide our agenda like Rove has successfully done. There are plenty of good, honest people out there who voted for Bush and his war/religion machine. And they were convinced by a very very simple message and a lot of deception. But while I know there are lots of fanatics out there, (we have plenty of evidence of that right here on a2k) there are not enough fanatics to win an election. We have to learn to communicate in a way that is simple and clear.

And I agree about Barack Obama. When I saw him on election night, I thought, "there he is, the next president of the United States." Rove has set it up for us. This guy's got the charisma and the skill and intelligence to do it. By next election, there will be more than enough unrest. I just hope it won't be too late.

Where'd you get that bumper sticker, Cinnesthesia? I don't have a car in manhattan and I doubt anyone will see a window poster in my 19th story window. But I'd love a button.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 10:52 am
Ski Kansas, you don't need a lift ticket.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:01 am
LOL, Dys...........I'm missing you already.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:04 am
Ticomaya wrote:
rodeman wrote:
Yeah Ticomaya, this damn sunshine and nice weather has bored me to tears for 57 years. And those damn beaches........who needs em?


Exactly my point. At least I get to check the weather report to figure out if I need shorts and a t-shirt, or boots and a coat. Very exciting.

And no ugly mountains getting in the way of my view of the horizon, either!


Get the weather from tv when you could just look out the window.....

Get your politics from tv when you oould just look at the what's happening.....

Yep...that's Kansas.......
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blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:04 am
We have weather here-- fire season and mudslide season! Never a dull moment!

I tend to agree with Lola-- we have to learn to communicate clealry, concisely, unequivocatingly.

We also need a leader with charisma, not some political seat filler. AND we need to seize the high ground on the "vision thing". FDR had it, Kennedy had it. We need it back, badly. Otherwise, you get what we just had-- two relative non-entities calling each other names.
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:05 am
Kerry was a lousy choice. Plain and simple.
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dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:07 am
My mother (family therapist) suggested all of us depressed by election results try laughing therapy. Goes like this: lie flat on your back, put your hands on your hips, elevate your hips and say loudly: HA HA HA HA HA, until you laugh spontanneously on your own. It's supposed to do wonders. It surely cracked me up to just imagine 50 something millions of Americans trying this at their workplace today.
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Larry434
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:08 am
eoe wrote:
Kerry was a lousy choice. Plain and simple.


Like with Mondale, Dukakis, and Gore, Kerry was but the messenger of a message the voters ain't buying.

Same message, different messengers, same resulting election losses.
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rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:09 am
This election was about religion. The sheep let the religious who have no business in politics tell them how to vote just like the iatolas in the arab countries tell thier people. How are the bishops who sent out letters just before the election about abortion any better then the mullahs in arab countries. Did they say dont vote for Kerry. No, but the implication was clear. I dont know for sure but I understand that in many protestant churches the preachers came right out and told thier people to vote for Bush. Its ok to kill 30,000 soilders and civilians in a "just" war but wrong to kill babies. As far as im concerned I think both actions are wrong but since im not God I dont think I have the right to condem others for thier actions. If there is a heaven and a hell those people will answer for thier sins. Im sure that thier will be many politicians and so called religious who will be burning in hell for thier actions. And before someone attacks me for being anti-catholic ive been one for 69 years altho im not sure im even religious anymore thanks to the policies of our so called religious leaders.
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eoe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:10 am
As I said, KERRY was a lousy choice. Plain and simple.
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rodeman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:10 am
Ticomaya
I meant that tongue-in-cheek..............

The Democrats are losing the heartland on values. Farmers, factory workers, waitresses who vote Republican are actually voting against their best interests. The Republicans use social issues to get their constituents to stop looking at what's happening to them economically.
I'm also baffled by the right wing who think the Bushies are upholding their morals by supporting a pro-war, pro-death penalty, pro-corporation, anti-environment and anti-social programs administration.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:15 am
Dag wrote:
Quote:
My mother (family therapist) suggested all of us depressed by election results try laughing therapy. Goes like this: lie flat on your back, put your hands on your hips, elevate your hips and say loudly: HA HA HA HA HA, until you laugh spontanneously on your own. It's supposed to do wonders. It surely cracked me up to just imagine 50 something millions of Americans trying this at their workplace today.


Now that's a good idea, Dag. Trouble is......that will get me more than laughs around here. Now that I think of it.........maybe that would be a good way to forget for a while. hahahahahahahaha

Excuse me while I lie down......<hands on hips>
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2004 11:17 am
I'm wondering how most military personnel voted.

My brother is in the army and he voted for Bush although he has ..... umm..... reservations.... about many of Bush's policies.

He told me that for him it came down between the known and the unknown.

The military could have played a major role in Bush's re-election.
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