Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

Lola wrote:

Quote:

Here's what I think went wrong. Single focus Karl Rove, Ralph Reed and others are getting away with murder. They are selling a simple answer solution to many easily convinced voters. It's not enough to wish for a more intelligent, better informed electorate. We've got to get down home and simple and hide our agenda like Rove has successfully done. There are plenty of good, honest people out there who voted for Bush and his war/religion machine. And they were convinced by a very very simple message and a lot of deception. But while I know there are lots of fanatics out there, (we have plenty of evidence of that right here on a2k) there are not enough fanatics to win an election. We have to learn to communicate in a way that is simple and clear.

And I agree about Barack Obama. When I saw him on election night, I thought, "there he is, the next president of the United States." Rove has set it up for us. This guy's got the charisma and the skill and intelligence to do it. By next election, there will be more than enough unrest. I just hope it won't be too late.

You're echoing my sentiments exactly. I am in the initial stages of starting a small grass roots organization which will propagandize the gullable south & midwest. I am going to start on senators up for re-election in 06' and we're going to start attacking them now.

The two things that Rove taught us is that reality doesn't matter and people are gullable. If you repeat the same nonsense over and over, people will believe it. I'm going to round up some really good writers and put a true conservative opinion into the midwest. Many of the senators up for re-election have gone against true conservatism values and they have strayed from their platform.

We're going to get on the phones to the conservative talk shows, write to the papers and get the word out. I am going the way of the 527s, use all lies and propaganda and never admit the wrong doing. The internet is full of alias' and if people hear the same story from a variety of sources, they'll start to believe it. You just need a sacrificial lamb on the other side to show the appearance of non-partisanship. Teddy Kennedy is the PERFECT scapegoat, besides he's 75 and he's up for re-election, he may retire. We will persecute him to give the illusion of being from the right, meanwhile the overall objective will be to remove the religious nutjobs in power.

It WILL work, it has done it all before. It won't work for the other side because the blue states actual think on the issues and they are immune to the BS, it's the red ones that fall for the non-issues of the election.

The other thing we are going to work on is getting stem cell research on each state ballot. It will be a meaningless vote, but we can put together an incredible heart tugging media campaign which will get people to the polls. It's one step, but a necessary one.

I am just one person and I have not done anything yet, but I am motivated like at no other time in my life. I will generate support from a few and hopefully many more. It has to start somewhere and hopefully I can play a part in taking back our country from the neocons.

Remember, it's not reality, just the appearance of it that counts. It will get nasty and they will go down, I am 100% sure of this.

Peace out and keep it real.

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Maybe it's their befuddled attempt at "uniting, not dividing" to horn in where they're not welcome?

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Lola...

Nice of you to try to help us out, Ticomaya. I'd love to be helped. But I don't agree with you. Bush is not a good communicator. He's a stupid monkey puppet

This may be the reason Dems are losing in this country... That statement doesnt show me intelligence and maturity. It shows me pettiness, immaturity.

I am an independent voter. I had a choice to make. I chose Bush. He is likeable, and pretty smart if you ask me. He is sitting in the Oval office yet again backed by the magority of americans that voted and put him there.

You all are making excuses and calling the majority of americans sheep, religious nuts freaks monkeys and such because we do not agree with you and your views. Most of you voted not for kERRY, BUT JUST PARTY LINE OR AGAINST BUSH.

Yet you come here name calling and bashing people that actually voted on issues and not party lines...

Look down on others that dont agree with you. Call them paranoid, homophobics, rednecks and uneducated. The majority have spoken...In my family alone we have 8 military vets, 2 college professors, 3 police officers, 3 active duty military. All of us have college degrees, some are christians some agnostics, some young, some old, and some retired. We also have democrats, republicans, and independents. All of us voted for Bush for different reasons... yet you lump us all in the group of uneducated, religous nut, ignorant, redneck hicks... maybe your party is out of touch with "real americans from all walks of life?"

By all means continue the name calling and the "we are better than you attitudes"

You will yet again have your partys inability of the last 4 years to even hold their senate seats let alone, having someone capable of sitting in the white house.

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Yawn. Another Republican apparently unfamilar with written English....

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My advice for Democrats would be to abandon your Welfare State dreams. This is not a society of entitlements. I might vote for a Democrat if I wasnt aware of their sinister goal of material "Equality"

Take from the rich and give to the poor, eventually all you will have is poor. Of course, the elitist political ruling class will be spared.

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Instigate wrote:

My advice for Democrats would be to abandon your Welfare State dreams. This is not a society of entitlements. I might vote for a Democrat if I wasnt aware of their sinister goal of material "Equality"

Take from the rich and give to the poor, eventually all you will have is poor. Of course, the elitist political ruling class will be spared.

A yes, common wisdom, so commonly wrong... Which party supports hand-outs? Can you smell the Pork, Instigate, or is the scent of hypocrisy too thick?
Pork--It's what's for dinner!

Now that I mention it, since I forgot it on the thread that I linked to, have some milk with your pork! Milk em' good!. Talking about free market principles is so much more fun than actually enacting them--go GOP!

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jpinMilwaukee wrote:

I am the person you should be trying to convince. But everytime you call me stupid or a sheep or tell me you need to "simplify" your ideas for me, everytime you call me a racist and a fascist or a homophobe all you do is push me farther away from your ideas.

I am none of those things... but you automatically group me with those that are... and every time that you do you drive the wedge that is dividing this country a little bit deeper.

Having spent the last 2.5 weeks travelling through the USA, and having stopped to discuss some issues at various campaign stands, Republican and Democratic, I totally second that. In each of those discussions, there came a point when the other side noticed that I had thought positions through and just honestly disagreed with some of them.

At this point, the reaction was always along the lines of "How can a decent and well-informed guy like you possibly disagree with us?" It seemed like the political equivalent of "What's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this?", and I found it very annoying. None of the staffers at the campaign stands stopped to think that maybe some people have good reasons to disagree with them, and maybe those reasons are worth listening to.

The self-rightousness was about equally annoying in both camps, perhaps sligtly worse at the Republican stand. But since it's the Democrats who lost the election and need more votes next time, I wish they'll be the first to learn this lesson.

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I agree.

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Steppenwolf wrote:

Instigate wrote:
My advice for Democrats would be to abandon your Welfare State dreams. This is not a society of entitlements. I might vote for a Democrat if I wasnt aware of their sinister goal of material "Equality"

Take from the rich and give to the poor, eventually all you will have is poor. Of course, the elitist political ruling class will be spared.

A yes, common wisdom, so commonly wrong... Which party supports hand-outs? Can you smell the Pork, Instigate, or is the scent of hypocrisy too thick?
Pork--It's what's for dinner!

Now that I mention it, since I forgot it on the thread that I linked to, have some milk with your pork! Milk em' good!. Talking about free market principles is so much more fun than actually enacting them--go GOP!

You milk link is screwed up. Perhaps you should look to your own party. It was Kerry that proposed subsidizing Boeing. Neither party will challenge the corporations. You should have voted for Nader if corporate welfare is your concern. Corporation provide jobs and a positive economic impact.

Not even Lord Clinton could do it.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-254.html

And heres Kerry for ya.
http://www.webprowire.com/summaries/525036.html

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I'm not a Democrat, and Nader is far from free-market oriented (quite the opposite). I voted Kerry, in part, because I have never seen such a fiscal mess as what Mr. Bush created. I am also sick of Republicans counting on fiscal conservatives for their votes; some of us are fooled, but not I.

By the way, turning the tables does nothing to exonerate your claims that "entitlements" are what lost the Dems the election. Entitlement can be found all over the place. At best, your links demonstrate that Democrats are guilty too--something I readily admit.

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Quote:

You milk link is screwed up.

Indeed it is. It looks like the milk people took down the article before the good people at a2k were able to educate themselves on milk price floors. To summarize--it accuses both Democrats and Republicans of using milk price floors for political gain. Again, I grant neither party amnesty from my criticism.

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blacksmithn wrote:

Apparently the Republicans among us may simply have reading comprehension problems. While that might explain some things, here is neither the time nor place to discuss them.

You've been asked politely not to intrude. Go somewhere else, please, you erstwhile Limbaughs. The adults would like to talk.

This encapsulates a central element of the Democrat failure. A party so in the grip of a collection of inward-looking, self-centered, bigoted adherents of the new theology of political correctitude cannot realistically expect real people to accept the pap that is so arrogantly put forward as the solutions to the country's "problems".

Today Democrat House Minority Leader Rep. Nancy Pelosi was quoted as saying that there is no need for the Democrats to reassess their agenda. Instead they need to concentrate on doing a better job in educating the voting public on the real nature of their problems and the wisdom of their remedies. In short -- The people have spoken, and the people are wrong. We will reeducate them.' Such blind arrogance permits no remedy.

All your self-serving analysis of how 'this or that group of wrong-headed dolts, unenlightened by our superior secular PC understanding, stands in the way of our political success' will keep the Democrats out is the cold for a long time. OK by me -- keep it up.

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georgebob1......shhhhh LOL.

If these people aren't aware that Nancy Pelosi is death to the party (her address alone - San Francisco - incites Republicans and scares away the center-right) let's not tell them.

Like they'd listen, anyway... Smile

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JustWonders wrote:

If these people aren't aware that Nancy Pelosi is death to the party (her address alone - San Francisco - incites Republicans and scares away the center-right) let's not tell them.

You've definitely nailed that one; she's a liability. The democratic party requires a more moderate vision and a centrist leadership.

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blacksmithn wrote:

Maybe it's their befuddled attempt at "uniting, not dividing" to horn in where they're not welcome?

Horn in where they are not welcome...in a public forum for the purpose of political debate?

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Getting back to the subject of this thread, I read the post by jpinmilwaukee quoting a letter posted by Fedral. It hit home, especially after reading the book by Thomas Frank titled What's the Matter With Kansas?

The letter writer who asks to be recognized by Democrats is the one person who can help us find a way to reach the heartland. In What's The Matter with Kansas? Thomas Frank describes how Republican corporate America has convinced blue collar workers and poor farmers to blame the so-called leftist values of both coasts for the decline of middle class values and religious beliefs. As long as they have someone to blame for their loss of jobs and stability, they fail to recognize that the profits of major corporations are made at their expense. Deregulation, lower taxes, out sourcing and loss of unions have completed the fall of what once was a stable and secure way of life, yet these are all popular issues with the poorest in the heartland.

Anti-abortionists and fundamentalists, mostly from the lower classes, have lost the most in a society ruled by corporate interests; yet they continue to follow the loudest voices, which lead them into further misery. If the Democrats study the history of places like Kansas for the past twenty years, they will find that there are many people who desperately need to realize how badly they have been fooled and robbed by the "right."

Remember how badly Howard Dean was criticized for talking about reaching out to southern rednecks? They are exactly who we need to reach! The Dems used to be the party of bluecollar workers. We have lost touch with the very people who made this party strong and honest. Now it has become so goddamed politically correct that its personality has morphed into something almost unrecognizable and nebulous. Are there any real liberals out there? Does anyone remember what a liberal really stands for? I'm not sure anyone but Kucinich truly understands and he just isn't appealing enough in this age of television and makeup.

Maybe we should reconsider Dean, who at least has original ideas and the honesty to talk about them openly. Then, four years later, Barack Obama will be seasoned and ready for a real revolution.

Now, on to the site for Obama bumper stickers...

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Let them become 'real liberals'. They'll never win an election, but at least they'll be authentic.

You know, I think that's been their problem. They've been closeted all this time. That's why they've been finger in the wind politicians.

At least, as openly liberal--they wouldn't be flip-flopping and issue-ducking... Respectable, just unelectable.

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Sorry, I'm back to this thread. Diane was calling my name ....

Kansans are independent people. We pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. We are not ignorant sheeple, although the libbys on the left coast would like to paint us with that broad stroke, as they like to do with all of the rural midwest. We have a strong history of entrepreneurship here. That's what drives our economy -- small businesses. We aren't afraid of "major corporations," in fact many of us would like to build our own corporations into "major corporations." We don't expect the Federal government to take care of us, nor do we expect it to take care of you. Similarly, we don't think we've been "robbed by the right," nor do we want to hear from you trying to convince us that is the case.

Now, I'll wait to hear from another Kansan to debate "what's the matter with Kansas." You can have your thread back now.

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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

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