Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

Lola:-

Be careful my dear.Don't go offering challenges to English intellectuals.I know you have had a fairly easy ride with your compatriots but a higher class of company has muscled in of late which thinks itself gentlemanly only until being provoked.
Your reply to Finn was a bit of a thrum though I wouldn't say it was pedantic.More snooty with what wit there is being derived from aristocratic styles of put down where the content is dependent on the superiority rather than the sense.I have seen it done many times in circles where usage is conditioned by getting away with it too often.London taxi drivers have learned to treat it like a light drizzle.One of those drizzles that dries as soon as it hits the ground.
One of the great difficulties with being sexy is that you get surrounded by sychopants and only ever discover reinforcements of your own ideas.This can cause a spiral like you see in the plug-hole of the bath.(sorry-shower).You can then easily become convinced that you have a politically astute brain which is a really,really hard idea to grasp when associated with the female of beauty and renown.

Wouldn't you agree that the world has been given a demonstration of dignity by the events surrounding the passing of His Holiness The Pope.

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Marketing is a subjective commodity. In the real world you can say something is 'best' when it isn't, but you can't say something will cure cancer when it won't. In the world of politics, which nobody in their right mind would construe to be the 'real world', elaborate and exaggerated claims are the norm, but only those backed by substance have any real legs over the long term.

When the Democrats attempt to garner the senior vote by claiming the GOP intends to 'destroy Social Security', they will likely enjoy some success among the lazy, ignorant, and easily fooled. But once the majority of seniors who aren't lazy, ignorant, and easily fooled figure out that's how the Democrats view them, the backlash can be significant. Many other examples can apply as well here.

When the rhetoric, no matter how scary or negative, can't be backed up by substance, the party cannot long sustain the propaganda. Sooner or later real ideas have to be put out there. Currently the Democrats don't seem to have any. And though they can temporarily benefit from major GOP screw ups, sooner or later they are going to have to have some decent ideas in order to sustain any kind of lasting power base. They can't do it by just bashing the GOP.

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George:-

You want to see a strained pedantic thrum just raise your eyes a little.

The ego is the strainer.

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George:-
Would you agree George that dropping in and out of debates about recipes for cake-icing or trends in clematis training is perfectly acceptable behaviour but the same casual approach to debates about things like war and judicial euthenasia or poverty or eternal salvation or damnation is a garuantee that any view postulated will be treated by sensible people as a form of dilettantist self-indulgence only engaged in to relieve boredom when nothing much else is underway.Whatever the views expressed they become discredited as they are perceived by observant people as mere transient whims.
A recent lengthy article in our Daily Telegraph described the conditions in R&R centres for your troops in the Mid-east which I must say would be expected to result in mutiny hereabouts.Three beers eh?And carefully monitored.Perhaps such a dreadful state of affairs has been brought about by discussions on the matter being confined to amateurs,the pros having given up through exhaustion,who,as our snide cliche-mongers are apt to regularly suggest,wish to "spend more time with the family".
When one thinks of senior administration figures spending 18 hrs a day on serious matters and have to be prepared to be assailed by such nonsense from what are nothing more than hecklers one cannot help but admire their patience,forbearance and toleration.
Some people mean it and some only think they mean it.Don't ever confuse the two.The former do and the latter are done to.Which is as it should be.

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I saw it, and quickly recognized the risks you were taking. As an old acquaintance from my squadron days was known to say (he was a master of the malaprop) "you're skating on thin ground."

My earlier question remains - to paraphrase Frank Stockton, will the lady choose the cigar or the thrum?

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George:-
Which lady?

Maybe I missed something.

Mae West would have the cigar.She never thrummed.In the movies I mean.
Guessing I think 99.9% of ladies at beta minus or higher would much prefer the thrum.The real head-bangers thrum in their sleep.

Can you receive Footballers Wive$?It is on ITV on Thursday at 9pm.It's about thrummers and their talented victims.Although it is stretching it to call them beta minus.

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Popular or not, there is little doubt the screw-tightenin' R&R-wise in the Gulf Theater plays a role in the statistically signifiant lower accident rate - on duty and off - noted of that area of operstions. Alcohol-related incidents, in particular, are startlin'ly lower than Stateside or elsewhere.

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They would head towards vanishing point with a cocoon of cotton wool in a sterile,hermetically sealed eight by six.

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Supervised by nice nurses from a government employment drive as well with compulsory letters to the nearest and dearest every day and tests on the edifying literature provided.

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Sounds like Iraq is the safest place to be.

Social engineering eh?It can grab a hold of most anybody.

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Timber,

Popular or not, there is little doubt the screw-tightenin' R&R-wise in the Gulf Theater plays a role in the statistically signifiant lower accident rate - on duty and off - noted of that area of operstions. Alcohol-related incidents, in particular, are startlin'ly lower than Stateside or elsewhere.

I wonder how much of this is due to the politics of alcohol in the region?

I think that taking steps to limit drunkeness, while somewhat draconian to the individual soldier, probably goes a huge way with the Iraqi population (especially the very religious amongst them) and is a hell of a smart move on the US part.

Cycloptichorn

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Oh, yeah

Quote:

Cyc, I know this is gonna disappoint ya, but what I draw from the Utah report is precisely what I said earlier - its a dead-horse issue. No matter how far the point is stretched,, no matter how frantically the point is spun, there just ain't no "There" there. If folks wanna grab at straws, fine. Thats how straw men get built.

I guess I am disappointed, Timber.

I mean, one could say that any issue is a 'dead-horse' upon declaration of it being so. I mean, the election wasn't even 6 months ago. It's hardly ancient history.

There was a major discrepancy in some of the polling methods with the election result; a report came out attempting to explain that discrepancy; that report has been shown (or at least is in danger of) to be quite faulty in its methodology. How is this a 'dead horse?'

Given the many, many examples of vote-fixing in the past, in our country and others, what makes you think that the US is impervious to such problems? Is it not worth discussion?

If anyone else would like to take a deeper look into the problems of voting in America I'd be happy to start another thread, just lemme know..

Cycloptichorn

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Timber has enough dead horses on his property that future archaeologists will assume the site a thriving chinese takeout.

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Has little to do with social engineering - somewhat more to do with recognizin' and respectin' host-country sensibilities and policies.

And here's a thought-excersize for those nowhere near there who are critical with what's goin' on there - while there is widespread popular opposition to the US presence and activity in the Middle East, the Gulf, and West Asia, it is notable not much of that popular opposition comes from there. In fact, the most significant popular civil upheaval to occur in the region was no particular inconvenience to anyone other than Syria's Ba'athist regime. Why might it be that The Arab Street is less negatively disposed toward US presence and activity on the very pavin' on which The Arabs walk their streets than is the left lane of The Western Street?

Of course there is violent Anti-US activity, most notably within that portion of Iraq most affected by the insurgency, however direct Anti-US insurgent action is declinin' while inurgent-vs-Civil Government/civilian populace has become the norm. Where are the Anti-US demonstrations, where are the demonstrations in favor of the insurgency? Why has Lebanon's populace risen against Syrian puppetry, why is Iran's populace becomin' ever less supportive of the theocratic mullah's, while Iraqi civilians provide US and Iraqi Interim Government forces with valuable anti-inurgent intelligence?

And when you're done ponderin' that, ponder why the wave of popular demonstrations have been against repressive and/or corrupt regimes, have had no anti-US component, and have resulted in the replacement of the at least incidentally anti US regimes which have been subject to popular uprisin's?

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No dispute many systemic flaws trouble the existin' US electoral system, Cyc, the dead horse is the notion any of the irregularities are at all related to partisan criminal vote fraud. Rather, the problems appear far more closely related to ignorance, incompetence, greed, and apathy than to organized, directed, partisan subversion of the process, while displayin' no particular national, or even regional, partisan bias.

"We wuz robbed" just plain don't play ... try another song if ya wanna find an audience willin' to pay enough to turn ya a profit.

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spendius wrote:

George:-

A recent lengthy article in our Daily Telegraph described the conditions in R&R centres for your troops in the Mid-east which I must say would be expected to result in mutiny hereabouts.Three beers eh?And carefully monitored.Perhaps such a dreadful state of affairs has been brought about by discussions on the matter being confined to amateurs,the pros having given up through exhaustion,who,as our snide cliche-mongers are apt to regularly suggest,wish to "spend more time with the family"

When I last served it was only two beers after 100 days at sea in the Indian Ocean. On the carriers we would have boxing matches, obstacle course races and organized tugs of war, and, of course basketball - all to burn off the excess energy. (You haven't lived if you haven't taken a fall on a steel carrier deck covered with the non-skid surface of epoxy and aluminum grit.) In fact, it was fun. Three beers now ! Must be the British influence. After some liberty years ago in Hong Kong and Gibraltar I came away awestruck with the capacity of the Royal Navy and Marines. Some time later I went to Australia.....

Quote:

When one thinks of senior administration figures spending 18 hrs a day on serious matters and have to be prepared to be assailed by such nonsense from what are nothing more than hecklers one cannot help but admire their patience,forbearance and toleration.

If you are referring to PM Blair, I quite agree. In an odd way I like your PM questions tradition. Good ventillation and it permits the occasional expression of contempt and scorn - good for souls on both sides I think. We could use a bit of that.

Quote:

Some people mean it and some only think they mean it.Don't ever confuse the two.The former do and the latter are done to.Which is as it should be.

I agree. Interesting how members of the former group are so often underestimated by the latter.

My reference to the "Lady or the cigar" or whatever was an awkward reference to an American short story of some renown several decades ago "The lady or the Tiger". As the story goes our hero (in an earlier age) is captured by some 'barbarians' and, while a caprive, suceeds in a dalliance with the barbarian prince's daughter. Finally when no ransom is forthcoming for him he is sent to the arena for a public spectacle. There he must choose between two doors - behind one a young girl, a lady for his pleasure; behind the other, a very hungry tiger. As he approaches he looks up and sees the prince's daughter subtly indicade with her finger the door on his left. As he approaches he considers her character and wonders - did she point to the lady, or the tiger?

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georgeob1 wrote:

I saw it, and quickly recognized the risks you were taking. As an old acquaintance from my squadron days was known to say (he was a master of the malaprop) "you're skating on thin ground."

My earlier question remains - to paraphrase Frank Stockton, will the lady choose the cigar or the thrum?

From this lady's perspective, the choice of thrum or cigar (as if one had to choose) would depend on whom the cigar totin thrumer is. <Looking around, no likely candidates in sight at this time.> So I'm left on my own. All cigars and thrums are not equal, far from it, as any lady knows.

Oh, on second look, I do see Blatham. Now there's a cigar and thrum any girl would envy. :wink:

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Lola wrote:

Oh, on second look, I do see Blatham. Now there's a cigar and thrum any girl would envy. :wink:

Get a room you two.

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georgeob1 wrote:

When I last served it was only two beers after 100 days at sea in the Indian Ocean. [...] Three beers now ! Must be the British influence. After some liberty years ago in Hong Kong and Gibraltar I came away awestruck with the capacity of the Royal Navy and Marines. Some time later I went to Australia.....?

Based on a few evenings with American troops during my own 15 months as a soldier, I would imagine that the really depressing part must have been the quality of the beer, not its quantity. Which reminds me of a neat Adam Smith quote I found while researching for a never-finished post about his "Wealth of Nations".

In 'The Wealth of Nations', discussing a possible tax on alcohol, Adam Smith wrote:

A fermented liquor, for example, which is called beer, but which, as it is made of molasses, bears very little resemblance to our beer, makes a considerable part of the common drink of the people in America. This liquor, as it can be kept only for a few days, cannot, like our beer, be prepared and stored up for sale in great breweries; but every private family must brew it for their own use, in the same manner as they cook their victuals. But to subject every private family to the odious visits and examination of the tax-gatherers, in the same manner as we subject the keepers of alehouses and the brewers for public sale, would be altogether inconsistent with liberty.

Here, within just one paragraph, Smith teaches us two lessons. (1) American beer was perfectly wretched when Smith wrote in 1776. (Some things never change.) (2) Smith thought collecting taxes a deep intrusion into people's privacy, so deep that it would be "altogether inconsistent with liberty" to make every family pay them. (Other things do change a lot.)

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A particularly clever find from old Adam Smith and a nice dig. Smile

We agree on that. There are a few small breweries here that make very good imitations of European beers, but by and large the popular stuff here is a pale (literally) imitation of what is widely sold throught Europe - even in France.

Our wines are first-rate though.

I'll also concede that in many areas of Europe food preparation and service is superior to much of what we have here. (I am recalling a particularly wonderful breakfast at Cafe Einstein in Berlin).

Your railroads are better too.

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Okay, Dems, What Went Wrong? And How Can We Fix It?

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