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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 12:17 am
So the newstand version of a magazine like this has articles about a politically charged topic like "The MSM"? It would assume it's audience is politically sophisticated enough to know the acronym "MSM" is supposed to mean Mainstream Media?

Are those the articles about color coding your bedroom or the articles about properly using lip gloss which refer to "The MSM"? Very Happy

Ummmmmmm.........


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/ClipBoard-2.jpg
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 12:37 am
Gee ....How about I go wake her up and make her find the exact articles this very minute so you can sleep better knowing that a teenager is more up on current terms than you....
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 12:39 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
<When I saw MSM first, I misread it as MSN. Then I did an online serch, found things like an "American feminist magazine", "Mechanically separated meat", "Men who have sex with men", "Methylsulfonylmethane" .... and am glad, to have got the answer now here.>


Finally, a voice of sanity. Very Happy

Which one would you choose, Walter, if you hadn't come across this thread.

I would guess that most people would choose "Mechanically Separated Meat", although one interpretation of that brings a painful scene to the mind.

Ouch. Exclamation
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 01:05 am
kelticwizard wrote:

Which one would you choose, Walter, if you hadn't come across this thread.


To be honest: until this very morning I've always thought, it was referring to one of those sites similar to 'Slade' on MSN. Embarrassed

I think, I prefer "Methylsulfonylmethane": 2,250 mg per day can reduce pain with Osteoarthritis, which really is a good thing.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 02:04 am
So - what the heck is "Slade" on MSN?
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:05 am
Slate, probably - the e-journal
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:31 am
fishin' wrote:
kelticwizard wrote:
Apparently you do, because you are using a term only found there.

A term "only found there"???

[..] If you had bothered to do a search of A2K for the term you would find that it's been used numerous times here over the last 6 months and one of the first people to post anything using it was nimh - hardly steadfast right-winger by anyone's measure.

Fishin' - you may have bothered to do a search on A2K - but did you actually look at those search results?

I mean, to be fair to Keltic - of course I know what "MSM" stands for - but I, too, in any case have always strongly associated (the use of) it with conservative activists, blogs etc. And thats pretty much reflected in every single of my five posts here on A2K that included the word. Which in turn twice refer to a quote of the word by other sources that also purely use it in reference to the conservative blogosphere's use of the word (like The New Republic describing, tongue in cheek, the "insurgency against the occupation of the airwaves by that amorphous group called--in blogspeak--MSM, or mainstream media."

However silly this discussion is, it looks to me that, much like the NYT link you brought, your reference to my posts proves Keltic's point, not yours.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 04:45 am
Here's those five posts (hey, you're nimh or you're not nimh, I've got a reputation to hold up and all that):

------
1) A copy/paste from The New Republic about the Dan Rather flack. Quote: "We are in the middle of an insurgency against the occupation of the airwaves by that amorphous group called--in blogspeak--MSM, or mainstream media."

2) A post about the exit polls controversy. Quote:

"The leaked, preliminary data that you heard "screaming" about Kerry victories was in fact mostly disseminated on the net. Drudge had them, Slate had them. The mainstream broadcast media outlets (MSM is the current term, I believe) were in fact extremely cautious in using them."

3) Another post on the election night frackas - a quote of a quote, really. I wrote, "I got round to reading Fox's link, featuring a self-described MSM "dinosaur" journalist [comment] on how the bloggers funked up", which referred to this article about the blogosphere. The author's tongue was firmly in cheek when, picking up on the critical bloggers' attacks on the "Mainstream Media", he wrote: "As a retired mainstream media ("MSM") journalist - and thus a double-dinosaur -- I don't begrudge these knights of the blog-table their grandiose dreams."

4) In a thread about Iraq, I was having it out with Foxfyre about her IMO overly reliance on op-eds and columns. She in turn (quite unbelievably) retorted that "the op-ed pieces are as credible and often better researched than is the average 'straight' news story", which was also meant as a put-down of the purported "MSM" bias ("there is virtually no such thing as a 'straight' news story anymore"). This is how I used MSM in my response:


Quote:
"Where the trouble comes in here is where, then, individuals like certain A2K posters seem to illustrate and "prove" their entire argument again purely through references to those columnists, opinion pieces, talk radio interviews, blogs - [..] No longer is a personal opinion construed from one's personal interpretation of the factual news stories, of the raw material; the raw material is hardly even gotten round to anymore. Hell, the raw material is itself declared irrelevant or discredited: who can trust the MSM anyway? Those reports from the ground ... you gotta take them with a grain of salt, because don't you know, all those reporters are liberals, anyway! [..] It's kind of ironic, really. Conservatives claim the MSM journalists offer (liberal) opinion instead of fact. So instead, they've erected a parallel news space that, barring Fox News, mostly doesn't even try to collect its own first-hand info from around the world - but skips straight to the opinionating!"


5) In the thread about the innocent Afghan taxi driver who was tortured to death by US troops, BVT remarked on the absence of any conservative posters in the thread, to which I darkly groused, "Oh, they will [show up], dont worry ... if the story actually starts making it to the "MSM". Until such time ignoring will do fine for most, I suppose."
------

So, five posts of mine plus indirectly a TNR article and a CBS column, all referring to the use of the term MSM in exactly the way Keltic posited it: as one that's firmly associated with the conservative blogosphere. From there, I'm sure its use will seep through to other venues of popular culture (even teen magazines). But that doesnt exactly make it serious, beyond a partisan stratum.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:09 am
nimh wrote:
Fishin' - you may have bothered to do a search on A2K - but did you actually look at those search results?

I mean, to be fair to Keltic - of course I know what "MSM" stands for - but I, too, in any case have always strongly associated (the use of) it with conservative activists, blogs etc. And thats pretty much reflected in every single of my five posts here on A2K that included the word. Which in turn twice refer to a quote of the word by other sources that also purely use it in reference to the conservative blogosphere's use of the word (like The New Republic describing, tongue in cheek, the "insurgency against the occupation of the airwaves by that amorphous group called--in blogspeak--MSM, or mainstream media."

However silly this discussion is, it looks to me that, much like the NYT link you brought, your reference to my posts proves Keltic's point, not yours.


I don't think so nimh. Keltic's comment which I replies to is that the term ONLY appears in right-wing blogs and, as he's repeated several times, that HAD to have been where she picked it up from.

I read the A2K posts that came back in the search and was aware of what they said (as well as the magazine articles that I linked earlier).
But the fact that they were quotes from, or references to blogs, doesn't make A2K, the NYTimes, The New Yorker or the WSJ a blog in itself.

If it appears in these other non-blog places and they aren't blogs, then it can't appear ONLY in right-wing blogs and anyone redaing these other sources could just as easily picked up the term from them.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:16 am
kelticwizard wrote:
fishin' wrote:
A term "only found there"???

There and among the denizens of it's immediate ideological environment. Like Lash and Just Wonders, for instance.

[quote="fishin'"Only if you count the Wall Street Journal as a "right-wing" blog.

A) The Opinion Journal is very right leaning, and is in ideological harmony with the right wing blogs. [/quote][/quote]

That may all be 100% but the WSJ itself is not a blog.

kelticwizard wrote:
fishin' wrote:
Or is it The New Yorker Magazine that is a right-wing blog???

Huh????

I went to your link, read the article and did a CTRL_F search. Nowhere in that article does the acronym "MSM" appear.


Try "M.S.M". Wink



kelticwizard wrote:
fishin' wrote:
Or is it the New York Times?


The article is about the blogworld. It even gives a translation of "MSM" for normal people!


If the NYTimes writes a story about a train does that make them a train? You said the term ONLY appears in blogs. Is the NYTimes a blog or not?


Quote:
Your own quotes demonstrate quite clearly it is not. Unless you want to count super-conservative Peggy Noonan as proving anything. She's super conservative, most blogs are super conservative-what a surprise that Blogspeak makes it's way into her columns.


I don't care how conservative any of them are. Did or didn't the term appear in media outside of blogs?? Since it has been proven that it has on numerous occassions, your assertion that the term ONLY appears in right-wing blogs is clearly false. That may very well be exactly where it originated but it seems the term has managed to find it's way into the mainstream media itself.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:36 am
dlowan wrote:
So - what the heck is "Slade" on MSN?


Ok - humour me already - and "Slate" is?
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:44 am
Surreal. Whoodathunkit. Posting a message contaiining three itty bitty letters warrants this much attention?

<< Just wondering if something so minor gets his shorts all in a bunch, God help whomever's responsible for a major meltdown. Wow.

FWIW and AFAIC, wrt the ridiculousness of this entire subject, I remain ROTFLMCLBO.

Smile

<That last sentence is code for "get over yourselves">
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:47 am
Slate Magazine: Online magazine of news, politics, and culture

(Sorry for the misspelling!)
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 05:56 am
Actually, MSM doesn't really mean Main Stream Media. I can't tell you what it really means, though. It's a vast right-wing conspiracy and well, you don't know the secret handshake or secret password.

There's also a test one must pass.

OK...two tests. One mental and one physical.

Oh...and some surgery. Relatively painless, though. And only for Democrats LOL.

You're allowed 3 guesses, though.

But, only you.

Since you brought it up.

And since it has such major significance to you.

Time starts.....now.

Good luck and may all your problems be so teensy-tiny Smile
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:10 am
fishin' wrote:
If it appears in these other non-blog places and they aren't blogs, then it can't appear ONLY in right-wing blogs and anyone redaing these other sources could just as easily picked up the term from them.

OK, fair enough. "MSM" is indeed your typical conservative blogosphere term, then, but since it is quoted as such in other places as well, using it (like Lash did) does not prove that one peruses such blogs oneself.

Right?

So Keltic jumped the gun on his assumption about where Lash gets her info from, but his detractors were a bit disingenious in ridiculing him for daring to propose that this "mainstream", "widely used" term was a typical rightwing blog term. (Yeah - its so mainstream that when the NYT or TNR or CBS uses it, they have to explain that its this conservative blogosphere-type term.)

Well, glad we can all come to a consensus about this weighty matter <nods>.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:38 am
And to say that MSM is a 'right wing' or typical conservative blogosphere term flies in the face of those of us who have worked in media and have used it for years. But so long as we are discussing this 'weighty matter' as Nimh says:

If you are a computer geek, you could say
Micronetics Standard MUMPS: (MSM) A version of MUMPS for the IBM PC RT and R6000.

If you are a health nut, MSM is a cartilage building dietary supplement

MSM
Media Support Module (ODI)

MSM
Metal Semiconductor Metal (IC)
http://dict.die.net/msm/

It is a cultural term: MSM = Men who have sex with men

And also from the urban dictionary: 1. MSM
"mainstream media", major TV networks and large newspapers.
Blogs are eating into MSM eyeball share.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 07:42 am
Googling MSM doesn't bring up a single article about the media...

Truthfully, while I did hear of the term first on some Righty blogs, I feel it is just like any other contraction; it spreads over time depending on how useful people find it to be...

Cycloptichorn
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 08:14 am
fishin' wrote:

Try "M.S.M". Wink


Okay. I thried "M.S.M." in your New Yorker reference. It is used twice-here is the all important first reference.

New Yorker wrote:


Once again, my point is proved. If "MSM" is a term widely understood, then why did the article feel it necessary to translate it for the reading public?

You people keep maintaining that this term is widely understood, which implies outside the Blogworld, and the only places you can produce where it appears outside the Blogworld have to contain translations so people know what the author is even writing about.

Sorry guys, but when you say something is widely known and understood outside the Blogworld, you have to produce numerous examples where the term is used outside the realm of articles written about the Blogworld itself. Even Peggy Noonan's article is largely about the blogs.

Anytime an author writes about a tiny little community, he/she has to use the terminology of that community for the article to flow well. That doesn't mean the community's terminology is known in the world outside. For instance, the Mormons believe the Native Americans were descended from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and therefore dub them the "Lammanites". Anyone writing an article on the Mormon belief for a general interest magazine-not a publication which caters to Mormons-would have to use the term Lammanites in the article. That doesn't mean the author believes, or expects you to believe, the Lammanites were descended from the tribes of Israel.

Such an author who intends to explain something-as opposed to endorse-will do things like write, "The Lammanites-what the Mormons call the Native Americans because they believe them to be descended from the tribes of Israel....."

Which is exactly what the references given here by fishin' do. The fact that the term "MSM" has to be translated for the general reading public is recognition that the term is not widely understood. That's why it needs explanation when used. Just like the term Lammanites.

You would think that these things would be obvious to anyone.

PS: It is conceivable that a Mormon author, who writes on general interest topics, just might slip the term Lammanites into an article or two not associated with the Mormon faith, and an editor might let it go. That hardly means the word is widely known and understood by the general population!
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 08:44 am
fishin' wrote:

Keltic's comment which I replies to is that the term ONLY appears in right-wing blogs and, as he's repeated several times, that HAD to have been where she [Lash] picked it up from......

....anyone redaing these other sources could just as easily picked up the term from them.

Not likely, fishin'. Lash enthusiastically proclaimed that everyone uses that term , that it is widely understood.

There aren't that many articles about blogs. There are some, but it does not constitute a genre in and of itself, like mysteries or science ficition.

If Lash wants to maintain, as she has, that the term is widely understood, she cannot base that assumption on the handful of articles that are written about blogs. It is almost certain that she picked it up from the blogs themselves.

Besides, most of the articles quoted about the term contain an explanation of the term. Anyone whose sole contact with the term is general interst articles written about the blogs would therefore correctly think that it is a term used by a small community-the Blogworld-and is not generally understood at all.

The fact that Lash maintains that the word is in universal use means that a large part of her reading and ifo is in fact gathered from the Blogworld.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2005 08:48 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Googling MSM doesn't bring up a single article about the media...

Cycloptichorn


Hee hee hee.

If this word is in such universal use, how come these searches bring up few if any articles about it being used that way?

I see a lot more articles about the treatment for arthritis than I do about this "widely used" term, lol. And I didn't even know there was such a treatment. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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