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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 09:59 am
I have read several of Hoffer's books and debated concepts in "True Believer". He makes for great soundbites and I agree with him on some points of view; disagree on others.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:04 am
Foxy:-

I wasn't unaware of bias.

We have no room to talk about imperial destiny.

What happened to the bath?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:06 am
TWIMC:-

Just for the record I was referring to Richard Hofstadter ,a professor of history at Columbia.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:21 am
Spendius, I already had the bath. Now need to finish getting dressed for a 10 am appointment. I hate working on Fridays. Is there a Friday-free job somewhere?

I didn't know how much you knew about New Mexico Spendius--just wanted to 'defend' my state that, like all states, has a checkered past of good and bad. And even today New Mexico has much to commend it and much to condemn it. Some here--not you--only want to see the bad in some things and, if some things ever had anything bad in their history, it proves those same things are evil now. (Of course these same people would say that other things happened in the past and are no longer relevant today.)

I think most thinking people, however, understand there are pros and cons to just about anything and everybody, and those who are fair minded and/or intellectually honest will weigh the good against the bad in all judgments.

When you get right down to it, the most compelling differentiation between modern conservatives and liberals is mostly their outlook on life. Modern conservatives are generally optimistic, forward looking, and happy. Modern liberals are often pessimistic, look to the past, and are angry.

Here's one example from the Rasmussen Reports:

Quote:
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:26 am
Foxy wrote:
Modern liberals are often pessimistic, look to the past, and are angry.


Boy, doesn't that describe a number of posters on this board to a "T" .....
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:32 am
personally (although I am a liberal, not to be confused with being a democrat) I am an optimist and assume that the US military/industrial complex will soon be in disarray.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:35 am
The WaPo calls them "Bartleby Democrats" Smile (They'd "prefer not to")...

Quote:
HERMAN MELVILLE'S "Bartleby, the Scrivener" tells the tale of a lawyer's assistant who inexplicably stops doing his job, instead spending his days staring blankly at a brick wall. "I'd prefer not to," he invariably tells his employer when asked to copy a paper, go to the post office or even answer a question. "No: at present I would prefer not to make any change at all," Bartleby says when asked to leave. In their response to President Bush's State of the Union address Wednesday night -- indeed, in much of their reaction to Mr. Bush's push on Social Security -- the Democrats share a disturbing resemblance to Bartleby.

Unlike Bartleby, the Democrats' maddening passivity can be excused in part by the administration's maddening evasion of hard choices. The accounts proposed by the president would not, in themselves, extend the solvency of the Social Security system by a single day. Mr. Bush not only presented his private accounts to the country as risk-free, he made none of the tough calls about what should be done to achieve solvency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62097-2005Feb3.html


Remember yesterday when they went to pose next to FDR's statue? Talk about being mired in the past! And why? Because "they'd prefer not to" face the present.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:41 am
And yet I was ridiculed when I suggested that it is the conservatives who are the progressives these days. Smile
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:49 am
Way to be positive, dys.


JW wrote:
Remember yesterday when they went to pose next to FDR's statue? Talk about being mired in the past! And why? Because "they'd prefer not to" face the present.


But in 1935, it appears FDR envisioned the expansion of SS to include the creation of private accounts ....

Quote:
Moynihan and Parsons Decry Partisanship
June 25, 2002

In an effort to keep the Social Security reform debate non-partisan and factual, Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Richard Parsons, co-chairs of the President's Commission to Strengthen Social Security, urged all political parties to "pursue a standard of bipartisan statesmanship" and "resist the temptation to cast the Social Security debate in partisan terms." The letter follows:

June 13, 2002

In our report to President Bush on December 21,2001, we joined the rest of the bipartisan Commission in calling for a year of national discussion of Social Security before legislative action is taken to strengthen the program. We believe that it is appropriate at this time to once again call on all participants in our national discussion to adhere to a tone that is non-partisan and factual.

Last year, we provided three models for reform for the President's consideration. Though each of these models has different characteristics, they all would include personal accounts, and each has been certified in the non-partisan analysis of the Social Security actuaries as providing higher expected total benefits than are paid today or which could be paid in the long run under existing law. Each of them would also maintain system solvency at lower cost than the existing Social Security system. The full report of the Commission, available to the public at www.csss.gov details these findings.

The Social Security system is a bipartisan responsibility. This responsibility cannot be met by approaching the issue in political or partisan terms. We are deeply concerned whenever those with responsibility for the program may be induced to foreclose constructive policy options based on erroneous or incomplete information generated in a political context.

We have a historic opportunity to adapt the system to the needs of the 21 It century by modernizing the program to reflect Franklin Roosevelt's original vision. In President Roosevelt's 1935 Message to Congress on Social Security, he argued for ultimately extending the program to include "voluntary contributory annuities, by which individual initiative can increase the amounts received in old age." It is a measure of the bipartisan success of Social Security that a Republican President, George W. Bush, is now striving to make FDR's vision a reality through the establishment of funded personal accounts within the Social Security system.

We call on all parties to resist the temptation to cast the Social Security debate in partisan terms, and to instead pursue a standard of bipartisan statesmanship in the debate during the months ahead.

Sincerely,
Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Richard D. Parsons
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:52 am
Hey, I didn't know that. Good post Tico. Way to go. Smile
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 11:01 am
well yeah Tico and I agree and if you read my topic (I think it was yesterday titled "kee jerk" you will find that I said essentially the same thing, that the dems were knee jerking on this issue in much the same way as the repubs knee jerked about Clintons health care ideas, neither side offering an acceptable alternative. I do believe that serious changes need to be made in SS and hope that both the dems and repubs can look after the needs of the nation rather than the needs of the party. I suupose that is too much to ask for but then we all elected the bastiches in the first place (both dems and repubs)
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:12 pm
Quote:
Modern liberals are often pessimistic, look to the past, and are angry.


Modern conservatives could save a lot of trees if they changed the stick up their you-know-wheres once a week rather than everyday too, but what does that have to do with the subject?
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Feb, 2005 10:20 pm
Have you had this anal fixation for a long time Lola?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 05:15 am
It might be due to your lack of interest in the Yucky but there's nobody I know who can tell the difference between your two parties.The general feeling is that you are a one party state-the business party or,more accurately, the paperwork party.If I make an attempt to explain the difference I very soon get into a tangle.You certainly don't seem to have any serious left wing.And we are following in your footsteps.The bulk of the agenda is agreed.More growth.
The problem seems to boil down to left wing policy being more populist and unrealistic and right wing policy being more realistic and unpopular.Real left or right policies are unregarded except by a few die-hards who are electorally irrelevant because there are so few of them and they balance out anyway.Left and right now have the same accents and dress.It is the final triumph of the lower middle class crusade which began in earnest in 1789.And it has nowhere left to go.One of our senior civil servants characterised the situtation as "boredom punctuated by orgies".
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 05:56 am
Foxy:-

So! You are sat there posting me messages with no clothes on!!Are you young and beautiful?

Monday is the pits of the earth.Friday creates feelings of euphoria around here.

Well those "same people" would say that wouldn't they?Not to is unthinkable.It could be styled extreme subjectivism.If the past events were "relevant" you are luxuriating on stolen land and in a similar position morally to an unapprehended bank robber.Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
A better way to justify yourselves is to look at what happened to Africa when we realised the error of our ways and returned the land to the natives.From what I have read a large number(sic) of the slaves deported out of Africa to your continent were destined to become human sacrifices so at least they were granted some sort of chance to found dynasties leading right to the top.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 06:10 am
"Punctuated delerium"...I've read about that.

Yes, there really is little remaining of a left in the US particularly, and Britain is following. What folks in the US label 'far left' is a consequence of where they sit...round about midnight.

The US could still go much further right than it is now. The mechanics are in place for it and the ideology is in place for it. Another serious terrorist attack, or serious worldwide displacement of peoples from environmental stresses, and the temptation (likely accepted) would be to go into police-state lockdown, neighbor turning in neighbor, gitmo gulags, pervasive electronic monitoring, much deeper constitutional erosions. It could get really ugly.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 06:10 am
Georgeob(scene):-

That's disgusting.Talking to a Lady in that shameful manner.It was simply a figure of speech crafted to convey efficiently certain observations.To have failed to appreciate that suggests the fixation you refer to is one that springs readily to your mind.If Lola does have any fixations they are concerned with civilised values and care for her compatriots and the effort to take those forward.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 06:15 am
He's Irish.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 06:21 am
MG:-

I don't think so.Your scenario would be bad for business.It has all been discredited in the Soviet experiment.

Why would there be another 9/11.That did the job of sucking you in with your dollars.The mighty dollar.Have patience.Orgies wear out naturally.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Feb, 2005 06:23 am
MG:-

I'm a bit of everything.
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