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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:10 pm
hmmmm. how about lindsay miller and all those around and above that were a part of that whole mess? utmost respect? not from me.
i treat every army on this planet with suspicion and skepticism, especially when deployed. it would be so nice, easy, and comfortable, if all soldiers did what was their duty -- but a) that duty is sometimes all wrong - the leaders make mistakes, too and b) soldierst don't always do their duty - soldiers are people, you know.
it is an incredibly risky job to have, but we don't live in 19th century anymore, to romanticize and idolize nations and armies into some deities that cannot be wrong and doubted and have to be praised no matter what.
0 Replies
 
poohtiggern2piglets
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:14 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
I would like to say something here and then I will get out of this conversation.


To me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON that serves in the military, no matter in which war or not in time of war, no matter whether foot soldier, flyer, or stock clerk, man or woman, will ALWAYS deserve and GET my utmost respect. To me, they are heroes. It matters not to me what their personal feelings were or are about the war, in the respect that they put those feelings aside and did what they felt was and is their duty. They fought for the very right you are exercising in this thread ~ FREEDOM OF SPEECHhttp://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000042.gif.


Very well put! I agree! My husband in a Naval Officer in the reserves, 15 years of service, and I am very proud of him!
Aside from that, I am a respectful conservative Republican...I just don't get why some feel the need to call people stupid, ignorant, just because they don't agree with them..that feeling can go both ways, it is all in how you view things. There is no reason to be so hateful...You can debate without resorting to personal attacks..
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:16 pm
poohtiggern2piglets wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I would like to say something here and then I will get out of this conversation.


To me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON that serves in the military, no matter in which war or not in time of war, no matter whether foot soldier, flyer, or stock clerk, man or woman, will ALWAYS deserve and GET my utmost respect. To me, they are heroes. It matters not to me what their personal feelings were or are about the war, in the respect that they put those feelings aside and did what they felt was and is their duty. They fought for the very right you are exercising in this thread ~ FREEDOM OF SPEECHhttp://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000042.gif.


Very well put! I agree! My husband in a Naval Officer in the reserves, 15 years of service, and I am very proud of him!
Aside from that, I am a conservative Republican...I just don't get why some feel the need to call people stupid, ignorant, just because they don't agree with them..that feeling can go both ways, it is all in how you view things. There is no reason to be so hateful...You can debate without resorting to personal attacks..


Is he on active duty now?
I am a retired navy corpsman.
I spent most of my career as a combat corpsman with the marines.
I got out as an HM-1
0 Replies
 
poohtiggern2piglets
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:20 pm
mysteryman wrote:
poohtiggern2piglets wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
I would like to say something here and then I will get out of this conversation.


To me, EVERY SINGLE PERSON that serves in the military, no matter in which war or not in time of war, no matter whether foot soldier, flyer, or stock clerk, man or woman, will ALWAYS deserve and GET my utmost respect. To me, they are heroes. It matters not to me what their personal feelings were or are about the war, in the respect that they put those feelings aside and did what they felt was and is their duty. They fought for the very right you are exercising in this thread ~ FREEDOM OF SPEECHhttp://www.smileys.ws/smls/yahoo/00000042.gif.


Very well put! I agree! My husband in a Naval Officer in the reserves, 15 years of service, and I am very proud of him!
Aside from that, I am a conservative Republican...I just don't get why some feel the need to call people stupid, ignorant, just because they don't agree with them..that feeling can go both ways, it is all in how you view things. There is no reason to be so hateful...You can debate without resorting to personal attacks..


Is he on active duty now?
I am a retired navy corpsman.
I spent most of my career as a combat corpsman with the marines.
I got out as an HM-1


No, he got activated right after Sept 11/01 and then again 10/03. He is an Intelligence Officer for the reserves. Thanks for your service, we appreciate it!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:21 pm
I'm sorry, poohtiggern2piglets, if someone was hateful to your husband.

My wife is proud of me as well (sometimes, at least), but surely not because I'm a a bavy officer of the reserve.

Neither am I - I don'z see any reason since I was a conscript and never would have chosen a profession which has "murder" as one of the job specifications.

Of courese, the military serves the state and its citizens. As do teachers, surgeos, nurses, astronauts, postmen etc etc . (As well as political scientists and historians/social workers :wink: )
0 Replies
 
poohtiggern2piglets
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:23 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'm sorry, poohtiggern2piglets, if someone was hateful to your husband.

My wife is proud of me as well (sometimes, at least), but surely not because I'm a a bavy officer of the reserve.

Neither am I - I don'z see any reason since I was a conscript and never would have chosen a profession which has "murder" as one of the job specifications.

Of courese, the military serves the state and its citizens. As do teachers, surgeos, nurses, astronauts, postmen etc etc . (As well as political scientists and historians/social workers :wink: )


No one was mean to my husband? I never said that or anything near that....He can take care of himself anyway if someone was..
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:25 pm
Walter,
Quote:
Neither am I - I don'z see any reason since I was a conscript and never would have chosen a profession which has "murder" as one of the job specifications.


This comment is a joke,right?

NOWHERE is murder part of the job description of a member of the military!!!!!!!
We fight our countries enemies,we protect our territory,we ensure the peace.

As a corpsman,my job was to SAVE lives,not take them.
I think you have been hoodwinked by anti-military speakers,both on here and in your country.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:27 pm
Welcome to A2K, poohtiggern2piglets.

Quote:
I just don't get why some feel the need to call people stupid, ignorant, just because they don't agree with them..that feeling can go both ways, it is all in how you view things.


There's a difference in between calling someone stupid and ignorant because they hold opposing opinions to yours, and calling someone stupid and ignorant because they are advancing a stupid and ignorant position.

You really can't take away people's right to call out a stupid tack of argument without resorting to a level of moral relativism that I doubt you wish to, as it is generally incompatible with the tenets of Conservative Republicanism.

Cheers

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:31 pm
Just for the record, I don't have a link, but I do recall MM previously mentioning his service related hand injury.

That doesn't make us butt buddies or anything. Laughing

I just wanted to say I remember the reference having been made before, so it isn't a "new twist" to his story.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:32 pm
No, no joke at all. Perhaps a different understanding of murder among us - say 'killers', if you want - but any soldier of any force in any country has a kind of weapon directly or indirectly as his/her tools.

(Although we called our 20 and 40 mm's sometimes potatoe guns - their purpose was to send deadly grenates. And my job was it to positionate the ship in right direction doing this.

This doesn't minimize at all what we did even in that short time I've been on that minesweeper (namely sweeping the German Bight so that ship 'roads' could be widened).
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:33 pm
Gawd, that last post was really crude. So unlady like. My apologies. Too much time with Bear.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:40 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
No, no joke at all.


To make it clearer what I meant (I'm not as good as a native English speaking person in answering 'stante pede' :wink: :
my comment is to be seen as general remark about the soldier's profession or of "war as occupation".

It's definitely no judgement upon soldiers as people per se, however, or aimed at a specific person.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:41 pm
Walter said...
Quote:
No, no joke at all. Perhaps a different understanding of murder among us - say 'killers', if you want - but any soldier of any force in any country has a kind of weapon directly or indirectly as his/her tools.


Again,not true.
I did not carry any kind of weapon,except a pistol.
My job was not to take lives,but to save them.
I was a non-combatant,according to the Geneva Convention,and not allowed to carry any kind of offensive weapon.

Squinney,
Quote:
Just for the record, I don't have a link, but I do recall MM previously mentioning his service related hand injury.

That doesn't make us butt buddies or anything.

I just wanted to say I remember the reference having been made before, so it isn't a "new twist" to his story.


Thank you.
Does this mean we arent going to be taking those long,hot,soapy showers together now??

I'm crushed Sad

Sorry,I couldnt resist.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:43 pm
He has a sense of humor. I was beginning to think all was lost.

I'll throw that in there too. Magginkat obviously has a different, um, view of matters but as far as I can see she is very much alone in it.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 12:51 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
There's a difference in between calling someone stupid and ignorant because they hold opposing opinions to yours, and calling someone stupid and ignorant because they are advancing a stupid and ignorant position.


Perhaps there is a difference. However, since you make the distinction yourself, it has no real meaning. Generally, in such cases, refined people find a way to confine their criticism to the idea in question and avoid launching into a critique of the person who expressed it. In most such cases, particularly here on A2K, one doesn't know enough about the other person to either make a rational judgement about their characters, much less to express it in an offensive way.

Finally there is the risk that you, yourself may be proven wrong. Why burn your bridges if you may have to recross them? In my experience this kind of restraint is a trait often associated with wisdom and understanding, while loudmouthed and boastful criticism usually indicates something quite different.
0 Replies
 
poohtiggern2piglets
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:31 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
There's a difference in between calling someone stupid and ignorant because they hold opposing opinions to yours, and calling someone stupid and ignorant because they are advancing a stupid and ignorant position.


Perhaps there is a difference. However, since you make the distinction yourself, it has no real meaning. Generally, in such cases, refined people find a way to confine their criticism to the idea in question and avoid launching into a critique of the person who expressed it. In most such cases, particularly here on A2K, one doesn't know enough about the other person to either make a rational judgement about their characters, much less to express it in an offensive way.

Finally there is the risk that you, yourself may be proven wrong. Why burn your bridges if you may have to recross them? In my experience this kind of restraint is a trait often associated with wisdom and understanding, while loudmouthed and boastful criticism usually indicates something quite different.

Smile I agree, and I do want to thank Cycloptichorn for the welcome..
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:52 pm
poohtiggern2piglets: Hello, and welcome to A2K. Hope you enjoy your stay.

http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/welcome1.gif
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:53 pm
No problem, all are welcome here.

Quote:
However, since you make the distinction yourself, it has no real meaning.


On the contrary, it has great meaning; to myself, if not others.

I don't care about respect, I don't care about opinions of myself, I don't care what anyone on this board thinks of what I say or don't say. I say what I mean, what I feel, when I feel it. It is up to others to agree or disagree with me and to form their own opinions of whether or not my comments merit further discussion, derision, or scorn.

I'm not posting here for anyone's benefit besides my own. Therefore, if I believe someone is advancing a stupid and ignorant position, I call them out on it. When people advance a stupid or ignorant position consistently, I call them out on their repeated pattern of stupid and ignorant behaviour.

If that offends anyone, tough. If that makes them look on me with derision, tough. I really don't care.

Cycloptichorn

ps. I believe this is a useful distinction. For example, as much as I have disagreed with certain opinions/posts of yours, George, I would never categorize your posts as stupid or ignorant, for they clearly are not. That cannot be said about many posters here(probably including myself from time to time, I'm no saint) and I'm not afraid to say what I think when people clearly aren't thinking their comments through fully. I realize that there is always a polite/non-personal way to bring this up, but some people don't understand subtlety, and I frankly don't have the time to care.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 01:58 pm
Cyclo said it best; I also will speak my mind, and don't care how it's received or responded to. Consistent pursuit of stupid or ignorant postions will be challenged if I have anything to say about it.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Jan, 2006 02:05 pm
You have yet to challenge yourself, so that couldn't possibly be true. :wink:
0 Replies
 
 

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