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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 10:39 am
The point is that it is Tico's thread is intended to be for Bush supporters and he can post any darn thing he deems appropriate for that topic.

As others can't seem to sustain any interest in their own Bush-bashing threads or pro-Democrat threads--no wonder since I find lack of substance quite boring also--several rudely come in here to spam this thread with anti-Bush drivel and propaganda despite several polite requests not to do so. All, however, are invited to actually particpate in appropriate discussions whether or not such participation is deemed "Bush support".

Oh well, my scroll button works just fine too, and I have to make allowances for those whose own agenda is so empty of substance that all they have going for them is time to attack ours.

Not that I would be so crass as to point that out.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 01:18 pm
From David Brooks
Quote:
"I don't know what's more pathetic, Jack Abramoff's sleaze or Republican paralysis in the face of it. Abramoff walks out of a D.C. courthouse in his pseudo-Hasidic homburg, and all that leading Republicans can do is promise to return his money and remind everyone that some Democrats are involved in the scandal, too.

"That's a great G.O.P. talking point: some Democrats are so sleazy, they get involved with the likes of us.

"If Republicans want to emerge from this affair with their self-respect or electoral prospects intact, they need to get in front of it with a comprehensive reform offensive.

"First, they need to hold new leadership elections. As Newt Gingrich and Vin Weber told me, Tom DeLay needs to take care of his own legal problems and give up the dream of returning as majority leader.

"But Republicans need to do more than bump DeLay. They need to put the entire leadership team up for a re-vote. That's because the real problem wasn't DeLay, it was DeLayism, the whole culture that merged K Street with the Hill, and held that raising money is the most important way to contribute to the team . . .

"Finally, today before noon, fire Bob Ney as chairman of the House Administration Committee. For God's sake, Republicans, show a little moral revulsion.

"Back in the dim recesses of my mind, I remember a party that thought of itself as a reform, or even a revolutionary movement. That party used to be known as the Republican Party. I wonder if it still exists."


For other conservative comment on Abramoff, DeLay, K Street etc check HERE.

As the piece notes, no mention of the matter this week from Hannity, from O'Reilly or from the WSJ editors.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 01:22 pm
blatham, Their silence is air shattering.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 01:23 pm
Hypocrites, the whole lot!
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 01:36 pm
From Byron York:

Quote:
January 04, 2006, 9:26 a.m.
The GOP's Plan for Post-Abramoff Reform
Senate leaders develop a plan to deal with the scandal.


Republican leaders in the Senate have had a plan in place for the last two months to "get ahead of" the Jack Abramoff scandal by coming up with a new proposal for lobbying reform. The leadership "decided in November that lobby reform for the Senate was a priority for this session," and Majority Leader Bill Frist placed Pennsylvania Republican Senator Rick Santorum in charge of it, Senate sources tell National Review Online.

Santorum's efforts will be apart from the work of Senator John McCain, who has already introduced a proposal for lobbying reform. That proposal, McCain said in mid-December, "provides for faster reporting and greater public access to reports filed by lobbyists and their employers under the Lobbying Disclosure Act of 1995. It requires greater disclosure of the activities of lobbyists, including for the first time, grassroots lobbying firms. The bill also requires greater disclosure from both lobbyists, and Members and employees of Congress, about travel that is arranged or financed by a lobbyist or his client."

Santorum's proposal is expected to differ from McCain's, but it is not yet clear what the differences will be. "It is not McCain," says another Senate source. "It would be another way of looking at it."

It is also unclear, at least at this moment, how bipartisan the Abramoff scandal will become. The leading figures in the affair so far are Republican lawmakers and their former staffers, but it is likely that at least some Democrats will be drawn into the investigation. In any event, Republican leaders want to be seen at the forefront of the reform movement, and not in a partisan, defensive crouch.

Republicans would not concede the comparison, but the lobbying-reform plan bears some similarity to the actions of President Bill Clinton, who in 1996, just days before his reelection, was faced with revelations about John Huang and the campaign-finance scandal. With Republicans pushing hard on the scandal, Clinton reacted by calling for campaign-finance reform. "The Republicans have been reluctant to give up their access to big money," Clinton said on November 1, 1996. "We have played by the rules, but I know and you know we need to change the rules."

There is, however, one significant difference between the two strategies. At the same time that Clinton called for reform, his attorney general, Janet Reno, severely limited the campaign-finance investigation, and dozens of Democratic donors eventually took the Fifth Amendment or fled the country to avoid telling investigators what they knew. In the Abramoff matter, the Bush Justice Department appears to be vigorously pursuing the investigation, even though its main targets, at least so far, are Republicans.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:33 pm
I will post the following fully admitting it is from a 100% partisan source and is intended to deflect blame from any Republicans who may be tainted in the Abramoff scandal. I join with the other rightwingers in this thread to say that any Republican who is guilty of a crime in this scandal should be fully prosecuted and removed from any position of power of any kind in government. I have no doubt some Republicans are going to be tarred by this brush.

The leftwingers will no doubt be quite slow to admit any wrongdoing by anybody who isn't a member of the GOP or Bush administration.

None of this in any way diminishes the truth of the following:

Democrats Don't Know Jack???SOURCE
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:45 pm
fox

You do get that donations are not the problem, rather any quid pro quo legislative favors delivered in return...the first being the way things work, the second being criminal?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:48 pm
Fox prolly doesn't understand what this investigation is all about. Ignorance is devine!
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:50 pm
Fine, then lets wait to see what quid pro quo legislative favors were legislated before condemning anybody because their campaign received a donation from Abramoff or his clients. You won't mind informing various media sources that this should be the policy I'm sure, especially when they are gleefully reporting potential GOP sins and blatantly stating that Abramoff is a REPUBLICAN lobbyist again and again while not giving a whole hell of a lot of attention to the fact that this was a very bipartisan issue. And Blatham, why don't you start by explaining this to CI? You two seem to be on the same page and speak the same language.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:52 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Fox prolly doesn't understand what this investigation is all about. Ignorance is devine!


Too easy...
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:53 pm
I must admit that Blatham is correct. There must be a "quid pro quo"..Now I do not know the depth of Blatham's knowledge of court procedures and law, but I can assure him that there must be very good evidence tying in a donation to a change in legislation BECAUSE of that donation.

I do not think that Blotham is very well read so I must remind him that our former president, Bill Clinton, received $100,000 for each person or set of people who slept in the Lincoln bedroom during his tenure.

I must also remind Blotham that big time donor Johnny Chung told congressional investigators that General Ji Shengde, head of Chines military intelligence . had given him $300,000 to donate to President Clinton's re-election campaign. Ji told Chung. "We like your President"

I must also remind Blotham that according to the book. The Year of the Rat by Edward Timberlake and William C. Tripplet, the top contributors to the 1992 Clinton campaign were Chinese agents. In 1996, the leading Clinton donors were US defense contractors doing business with Chinese missle manufacturers.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:55 pm
Not easy; investigations are never easy, but we are heartened that all are being investigated with Abramoff's help. If Abramoff lies to the Justice Department, any deals made will be null and void .
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:57 pm
What do you think, McG. Did CI 'get it'? Smile
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 02:58 pm
No.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:03 pm
During 1996 , Clinton pressed for the MFN status for China.

It would appear that there may have been a tie between the Chinese donations and the Clinton initiative.

But- that was not the case.

Because Clinton said-- I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT IT CAN BE SHOWN THAT I CHANGED ANY LEGISLATION J U S T BECAUSE OF A DONATION.

Now, where it can be easily established that there is indeed a complete tie in, the legislator involved must pay the penalty, but if anyone can say that the donations from Abramoff were just one of the considerations in pressing for certain legislation, they can, as Clinton did, escape a legal judgement.

At this time, it is more important what will take place in the court of Public Opinion rather than in the legal realm. I am sure that the list made by Foxfyre will convince all but the frantic partisans at each end of the political spectrum that, indeed, many received donations from Abramoff.


I am certain that the general public will not be able to notice the niceties involved in the Slickmeister's comment-

" I do not believe that I can be shown that I changed any legislation JUST because of a donation"
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:04 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Fine, then lets wait to see what quid pro quo legislative favors were legislated before condemning anybody because their campaign received a donation from Abramoff or his clients. You won't mind informing various media sources that this should be the policy I'm sure, especially when they are gleefully reporting potential GOP sins and blatantly stating that Abramoff is a REPUBLICAN lobbyist again and again while not giving a whole hell of a lot of attention to the fact that this was a very bipartisan issue.


Well, that looks to be what we will find out, given that the central figures have plead guilty and now have a clear self-interest in truthfulness and avoiding obfuscation and obstruction. I'm vesting faith in mid-level Justice people here, not having much faith in the top folks there.

But of course Abramoff was a Republican lobbyist. Any other description would be inaccurate, by personal history and by stated political goals. It is hard to imagine what else a lobbyist might get up to which would make that term more accurate than the case here.

As to the media 'gleefully reporting sins', we know that the hint of scandal is what they love second only to war. Better if sex is involved of course but any scandal brings in the viewers and the advertising bucks. But if you feel hard done by right now, I can only suggest you go to your library and dig through the archives to remind yourself how pervasively and constantly every paper ran Monica or filegate or travelgate. Or just recall how many times you saw Ken Starr on tv.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:07 pm
I note that Blotham identifies Abramoff as a "Republican Lobbyist" who just happened to give large donations to DEMOCRATS.

I don't think Blotham looked at Foxfyre's list.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:28 pm
I don't think, you ever read those two newspapers, you use so often as source and for quotations properly, namely the Chicago Sun-Times and the Chicago Tribune: both calling him "Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff" (as in their issues of e.g. December 31 [Tribune] or October 6 [Sun-Times] ...).
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:37 pm
There is a vast difference between a lobbyist who may or may not be Republican lobbying Republicans and a person who is lobbying on behalf of the Republican party. The media gives the impression that the latter is the case. It isn't.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2006 03:39 pm
foxie seems to be missing the current news on Abramoff and the republican connection. What kind of brain does it take to miss such evidence?
0 Replies
 
 

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