0
   

Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:21 pm
Blatham wants a picture of a "blown-up kid" or a GI with "mangled guts". I don't know if the media shows such things. For example, I searched diligently on the web to find Chippewa Boys that are deformed because of the Canadian Liberal Government's negligence in making sure that their largest concentration of petro-chemical manufacturing close to the Aamjiwnaang First Nation Reserve did not cause pre-natal problems.- Source- Chicago Sun Times- P. 36- December 19th

It would appear that the Canadian Government( Blotham's country) is guilty of GENOCIDE--which, I am sure, is listed as a far far greater crime than casualties unavoidable in a war.

I have some good photos of the after effects of Nagasaki and Hiroshima if Blotham would like to see them. I am sure he would not wish to complain about those occurences to the World War II veterans who are alive because the war was ended before one million more American GI were killed.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:24 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
The thing, is I think most, probably not all, but most thinking Americans WANT the president to be sure we are safe and support him in that effort.


I'm just going to let that one sit out for all eyes to see.

Quote:
But I'm sure glad you think the American people can't be fooled by a media blitz FD. So you realize that Americans were smart enough to elect the right guy for President and the right Congress after all. That's good to hear. Smile


That's exactly where I was going with that, how'd you guess. If you believe that they can be tricked by "Democrats" in "bully pulpits" then you have to acknowledge that they can be tricked by a clever campaign of fear. As my little niece would say, you do or you don't or you do or you don't.


I take it then that you think most Americans don't want the President to keep us safe and disapprove of his efforts toward that end? It will be interesting to see how the polls support our opposite points of view on that one.

And kudos for taking the opening I gave you for a sucker punch. Smile The difference however is that in a campaign, both sides have an opportunity to get their stuff out there. No political party, however, has the wherewithall to combat a media that blitzes with a certain point of view day after day. So its left up to the few conservative newspapers and television programs, talk radio, and the Internet to get alternate (and perhaps more accurate) information out there.

Anyhow I was teasing. I know you dislike the President and so far you have pretty much disliked everything he does. I understand that you think he is illegally spying on Americans. You are being supported in that point of view by a great deal of the media. I do believe, however, that most Americans do see this differently or there would be much more of a hue and cry out there.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:25 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
As a reminder, rap music, scary suggestions, and embarrassment is not what most people define as torture.


Well, not, if someone wants to listen to such music etc voluntarily. (Actually, it was music by Eminem and Dr. Dre for 20 days before the music was replaced by horrible ghost laughter and Halloween sounds.)

The International Committee of the Red Cross found this to be "cruel, inhumane and degrading" treatment of detainees.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:27 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
As a reminder, rap music, scary suggestions, and embarrassment is not what most people define as torture.


Well, not, if someone wants to listen to such music etc voluntarily. (Actually, it was music by Eminem and Dr. Dre for 20 days before the music was replaced by horrible ghost laughter and Halloween sounds.)

The International Committee of the Red Cross found this to be "cruel, inhumane and degrading" treatment of detainees.


Well, I would certainly think so if I had to listen to Eminem for one day, let alone 20. It would be most unpleasant and uncomfortable. But it is not torture as most people define torture.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:28 pm
I do not know what Angus Reid Global Scan as presented by nimh is and I doubt it is valid. I always use Rasmussen. If nimh were to reference that site, he would discover that the Rasmussen Reports as of TODAY say:

Presidential Approval--48% Approve of Bush

51% Disapprove of Bush

Approval of Bush's Policies in Iraq--40%
Disapproval---------------------------39%

Who is winning the war in Iraq?

Allies-----------------------------50%
Insurgents-----------------------25%
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:30 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
As a reminder, rap music, scary suggestions, and embarrassment is not what most people define as torture.


Well, not, if someone wants to listen to such music etc voluntarily. (Actually, it was music by Eminem and Dr. Dre for 20 days before the music was replaced by horrible ghost laughter and Halloween sounds.)

The International Committee of the Red Cross found this to be "cruel, inhumane and degrading" treatment of detainees.


Which is why otherwise fine organizations like the Red Cross lose credibility with people who think rationally.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:37 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Which is why otherwise fine organizations like the Red Cross lose credibility with people who think rationally.


I suppose, you are - like lots of other in the US - mixing up issues of your national Red Cross with the ICRC.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:41 pm
Oh no, Walter Hinteler- I am sure that if you had to listen to the crap from Eninem or 50 cent all day which denigrates Black women as Hos and Beetches, you would quickly crack.

I am reminded of a great Woody Allen movie in which the main character( Woody Allen as a nerd- a typical role for him) was sentenced by a judge for his delinquencies to spend 24 hours in a locked room with an insurance salesman.


However, I do not think you are really keeping up with the news on Torture. As you are probably aware, Senator McCain is the chief Anti-Torture spokesman. I will replicate the entire article found in the Chicago Tribune for your perusal-

source- Chicago Tribune- DECEMBER 19, 2005-

quote

ACROSS THE NATION

WASHINGTON D.C.

MC CAIN T E M P E R S TORTURE POLICY

Sen. John McCain, who pused thte White House to support a ban on torture, suggested Sunday that harsh treatment of a terrorism suspect who knows of an imminent attack WOULD NOT VIOLATE INTERNATIONAL STANDARDS.
The Arizona Republican said legislation before Congress would establish in U. S. law the international standard banning any treatment of prisoners that "shocks the conscience" including mock executions.
Asked on ABC's 'This Week" whether such treatment of a terrorism suspect who could reveal information that could stop a terrorist operation would "shock the conscience' , Mc Cain said IT WOULD NOT.

"In that million to one situation,then the president of the United States would authorize it and take responsiblity for it, said McCain."


END OF QUOTE

As you may be aware, Walter Hinteler, President George W. Bush is no coward and would make such a decision if it was deemed necessary to save American lives.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 02:54 pm
George W. Bush is no coward? He went AWOL from his military obligations. How do you know he isn't a coward. Commanding people to war wihtout having experienced war is easier. Bush's "last resort" didn't turn out to be last resort.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 03:01 pm
Do you have any evidence to show he is a coward? I am reliably informed by my peers that cowards don't fly Airplane Trainers.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 03:49 pm
As I am reliably informed that Bush is a moron.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 04:29 pm
Mortkat wrote:
I thought German laws were flexible. In Dachau they only KILLED most of the Jews.

German law..certainly. It has always been on the side of Justice. Perhaps the mistake FDR made was not allowing the Russians to go all the way to the Weser.

It is amazing. the USA, which has been the cradle of liberty, forced to listen to the pious preachments from a country which has more blood on its hands in Europe than anyone but Stalin.

There is an old adage. "Good deeds never go unpunished" The cemetaries are filled with the bodies of US servicemen that died liberating Germany and now, we hear pious preachments from a moth eaten country with a miserable GPA and a fractious and unstable government.

I think commentary is fine but comments about MORALITY from the most IMMORAL COUNTRY IN EUROPE?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:05 pm
blatham wrote:
What is the real thing? Please define for me.




http://www.jackandfriends.com/store/files/images/small/t_712.jpg
0 Replies
 
Lord Ellpus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:07 pm
Interesting fact of the day.......


Did you know that Coca Cola, without any added colourant, would be green?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:08 pm
The original used to be green.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 05:36 pm
Using some people's logic, then every time one of the Brits or Canadians or Germans or Aussies or Americans criticizes the United States or anything it has ever done, they are criticizing every American.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 06:09 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1671984,00.html --------------------------------------------------The American nightmare
The Bush administration's defence of unauthorised phone taps shows a chilling disregard for the rule of law, writes Philip James

Wednesday December 21, 2005


Is America becoming what it most fears: a big brother state ruled by diktat, where no one is protected from eavesdropping by the secret police, and everything is permitted in defence of the homeland, including torture?
Perhaps I'm naive, but I grew up believing that America was somehow different, that alongside the corporate greed, brash materialism and barely functioning social safety net, a unique society prospered. This America was a land of limitless opportunity, a magnet to those escaping oppression, offering prince and pauper alike the possibility to dream big.

This America still exists, but it is being eroded by an administration that believes it can rule outside the rule of law. They are fast replacing the American dream with an American nightmare, an Orwellian world where memos defending torture are penned in the department of justice and judges are made redundant in the public interest.
The irony of President Bush's proud statement this week on the Iraqi elections was inescapable. "The Iraqi people now enjoy constitutionally protected freedoms and their leaders now derive their powers from the consent of the governed," he said at the start of a press conference in which he defended eroding those freedoms at home while asserting his power to act without judicial check.

Waiting to authorise wiretaps on suspected enemies of the state takes too long, long enough for them to act, went the argument. This is bogus. The laws in place make attaining a warrant for a wiretap extremely easy. What's more, once a warrant is obtained, it is effective without review for up to 120 days.

The warrant law is not some tiresome piece of procedural bureaucracy, but the only safeguard against the executive branch of government targeting anyone they don't particularly like for any reason of their choosing. It was put in place after the Watergate scandal demonstrated how easily the White House could persecute its perceived political opponents by drawing up secret enemies lists.

In an astonishing display of candour, Dick Cheney now looks back on the Nixon presidency with chilling nostalgia, ruing the loss of unfettered executive power. "Watergate and Vietnam served ... to erode the authority I think the president needs to be effective, especially in the national security area," opined the vice-president to a gaggle of reporters in the cabin of Air Force Two, as they flew over the Middle East.

Dick Cheney isn't the only one prone to bouts of nostalgia, nowadays. I have begun to look back on my first close encounter with American power. I was a young journalist covering the Reagan-Gorbachev summit in Moscow. The sight of the presidential motorcade growling through Red Square, literally pulling up to the front door of the "evil empire" was nothing less than awesome. But something that seemed insignificant at the time stayed with me.

I was struck by how fascinated Gorbachev's security detail was with its American counterpart. As the two delegations negotiated the end of the Soviet Union inside the Kremlin, outside KGB agents marvelled at the air conditioning of the secret service agents' Chevy Suburbans, the superior fabric of their suits.

The Russians' eyes revealed more than material envy, however. They betrayed the acknowledgment that the Americans represented to them the pinnacle of individual freedom, while they remained locked in the dark ages of a repressive state. I wonder if today's Russians still marvel at America in the same way, an America that cannot clearly renounce torture as an acceptable method of interrogation and sanctions secret spying on anyone the president considers threatening.

While the rest of the world may have lost faith in America long ago, President Bush is counting on the continued support of Americans. He has calculated that, after 9/11, the American people are prepared to trade some constitutional liberties for personal safety. It is a cynical calculation that has worked so far. So far fear has triumphed over hope.

The first rumblings of a backlash are finally evident in a Congress that has up to now been loth to challenge a wartime president. Sensing that the president may have overplayed his hand, Republican senator Arlen Specter has announced he'll hold hearings into Mr Bush's decision to allow domestic wiretaps without court approval.

Public opinion still lags behind the outrage of senators. In a country that still feels it could be one day away from the next terrorist attack, public opinion may never catch up. Fear may still triumph over hope.

ยท Philip James is a former senior Democratic party strategist
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 06:14 pm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 06:16 pm
More fear mongering. tico, Do you under your bed every day? LOL
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Dec, 2005 06:17 pm
Foxfyre wrote:

Anyhow I was teasing. I know you dislike the President and so far you have pretty much disliked everything he does. I understand that you think he is illegally spying on Americans. You are being supported in that point of view by a great deal of the media. I do believe, however, that most Americans do see this differently or there would be much more of a hue and cry out there.


Oh, I was teasing too. And you're right, I don't like the job Bush is doing and I have little respect for his actions and the double speak that comes from his administration. My opinion is well founded, I believe. I didn't start out mistrusting him, he slowly and over time gave me plenty of reasons to doubt that he was up to the job.

I am supported in my contention that his actions of spying on Americans were illegal by more than just the media. The Senate promises an investigation as does the FISA court, so this isn't a made up smear campaign. I sincerely hope that most Americans do not think that it's ok for the president to operate outside the law for any reason. But if they do, that's just tough luck for all of us I guess. Twenty years from now when it turns out that the "war on terror" has no end and we have willingly given up any claim we had to most of our civil rights, we will wonder how we got here. I know that you worship this president and there's really nothing you wouldn't give up for him because you believe he acts in your best interest. You are not alone in that.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 07/23/2025 at 03:38:18