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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 02:55 am
mysteryman wrote:
If it was up to me,congree would get about $20,000 per year salary.

Are you sure? That way you'd get Congress populated with incompetent do-gooders. Those are the worst. If I must be bossed around, I'd rather have it done by competent cynics who're in it for the money.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:23 am
I am sure that Thomas knows that many Senators are quite wealthy. In fact, some people have been complaining that only rich men can run for the Senate.

The survival of rubbish like Kennedy and Boxer proves that, yes, you can buy your way into a Senate seat and keep it.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 05:39 am
Mortkat wrote:
I am sure that Thomas knows that many Senators are quite wealthy. In fact, some people have been complaining that only rich men can run for the Senate.

The survival of rubbish like Kennedy and Boxer proves that, yes, you can buy your way into a Senate seat and keep it.

Wouldn't the main culprit in Kennedy's case be good old-fashioned family connections? They appear to have worked pretty well for his Californian nephew-in-law too.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 08:28 am
Thomas wrote:
Mortkat wrote:
I am sure that Thomas knows that many Senators are quite wealthy. In fact, some people have been complaining that only rich men can run for the Senate.

The survival of rubbish like Kennedy and Boxer proves that, yes, you can buy your way into a Senate seat and keep it.

Wouldn't the main culprit in Kennedy's case be good old-fashioned family connections? They appear to have worked pretty well for his Californian nephew-in-law too.


I think the Californian nephew-in-law certainly did not get into politics via a family name, especially when the 'family' are mostly liberal Democrats. The California nephew-in-law got into politics on the strength of a reasonably palatable conservative platform coupled with name recognition, good looks, and personality.
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cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 08:39 am
All this time I thought this thread was about women's sports panties.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:14 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I think the Californian nephew-in-law certainly did not get into politics via a family name, especially when the 'family' are mostly liberal Democrats.

True, but that didn't keep Vice President Rockefeller's nephew from becoming a senator for the Democrats. Family ties do bind tighter than party politics, even if they bind more discreetly. And while Schwarzenegger did not use the Kennedy trademark, I would be surprised if he didn't use the connections that came with his marriage.
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revel
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:27 am
Well, he sure used it in his acceptance speech with the whole Shriver (Kennedy by marriage) clan standing up there with him. I guess the name recognition only works for so long as his poll numbers has dropped considerably.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 09:51 am
cjhsa wrote:
All this time I thought this thread was about women's sports panties.

Well at least you don't believe anymore that it's about Bush supporters. You're making progress. Smile
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:40 pm
December 15, 2005
Bush and McCain Reach Deal on Treatment of Torture Suspects By BRIAN KNOWLTON
International Herald Tribune
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - The White House, after weeks of resistance, agreed today to Senator John McCain's call for a law specifically banning cruel or inhuman treatment of terror suspects anywhere in the world.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:42 pm
OKay, so this administration kept telling the world that the US doesn't torture prisoners.

Bush supporters still think Bush doesn't tell lies.

What a shame.
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:56 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
December 15, 2005
Bush and McCain Reach Deal on Treatment of Torture Suspects By BRIAN KNOWLTON
International Herald Tribune
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 - The White House, after weeks of resistance, agreed today to Senator John McCain's call for a law specifically banning cruel or inhuman treatment of terror suspects anywhere in the world.


"Torture" suspects?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 03:59 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
OKay, so this administration kept telling the world that the US doesn't torture prisoners.

Bush supporters still think Bush doesn't tell lies.

What a shame.


Why don't you try and communicate clearly, c.i.? What are you trying to say here?

Is there something in this story that has caused you to leap to the conclusion that the US tortures prisoners? If so, what might that be?
Is there something in this story that has caused you to leap to the conclusion that Bush tells lies? If so, what might that be?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 04:42 pm
Whats funny,is that while John McCain says torture doesnt work,he has admitted it did work on him and others when the North Vietnamese did it to him.

Also,if it doesnt work,then why did McCain allow for the "ticking time bomb" exemption?
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Dec, 2005 05:00 pm
It's Electric!
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 06:17 am
That george. Just one little ole habitual truth-teller. And, like it is always the full truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help him please god.

Quote:
Congress doesn't see same intelligence as president, report finds

WASHINGTON - President Bush and top administration officials have access to a much broader ranger of intelligence reports than members of Congress do, a nonpartisan congressional research agency said in a report Thursday, raising questions about recent assertions by the president.

Bush has said that Democratic lawmakers who authorized the use of force against Iraq and now criticize the war saw the same pre-invasion intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that he did.

The president made that claim in recent speeches about Iraq. Support for the war has decreased, and critics have said that the administration misled the country when it relied on erroneous intelligence about Iraqi weapons programs that supported its case for war and discarded information that undermined it.

"Some of the most irresponsible comments - about manipulating intelligence - have come from politicians who saw the same intelligence I saw and then voted to authorize the use of force against Saddam Hussein," Bush said on Wednesday in his most recent speech. "These charges are pure politics."

The Congressional Research Service, by contrast, said: "The president, and a small number of presidentially designated Cabinet-level officials, including the vice president ... have access to a far greater overall volume of intelligence and to more sensitive intelligence information, including information regarding intelligence sources and methods."

Unlike members of Congress, the president and his top officials also have the authority to ask U.S. intelligence agencies more extensively for follow-up information, the report said. "As a result, the president and his most senior advisers arguably are better positioned to assess the quality of the ... intelligence more accurately than is Congress."

The CRS report identified nine key U.S. intelligence "products" that aren't generally shared with Congress. These include the President's Daily Brief, a compilation of analyses that's given only to the president and a handful of top aides, and a daily digest on terrorism-related matters.

The White House didn't respond to a request for comment.

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/13416512.htm
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 07:29 am
Quote:
...he [Jonathan Landay] was part of a team that won a National Headliners Award for ``How the Bush Administration Went to War in Iraq.'' He also won a 2005 Award of Distinction from the Medill School of Journalism for "Iraqi exiles fed exaggerated tips to news media."


Nah. He's not biased. Smile
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 07:54 am
Logically irrelevant. It would be a grand thing if you could get a handle on how and when fallacies of irrelevance apply. It's not complicated.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 10:55 am
Mightier Than the Pen
Why I gave up journalism to join the Marines.

BY MATT POTTINGER
Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:01 a.m.

When people ask why I recently left The Wall Street Journal to join the Marines, I usually have a short answer. It felt like the time had come to stop reporting events and get more directly involved. But that's not the whole answer, and how I got to this point wasn't a straight line. It's a cliché that you appreciate your own country more when you live abroad, but it happens to be true. Living in China for the last seven years, I've seen that country take a giant leap from a struggling Third World country into a true world power. For many people it still comes as a surprise to learn that China is chasing Japan as the second-largest economy on the globe and could soon own a trillion dollars of American debt.

But living in China also shows you what a nondemocratic country can do to its citizens. I've seen protesters tackled and beaten by plainclothes police in Tiananmen Square, and I've been videotaped by government agents while I was talking to a source. I've been arrested and forced to flush my notes down a toilet to keep the police from getting them, and I've been punched in the face in a Beijing Starbucks by a government goon who was trying to keep me from investigating a Chinese company's sale of nuclear fuel to other countries.

When you live abroad long enough, you come to understand that governments that behave this way are not the exception, but the rule. They feel alien to us, but from the viewpoint of the world's population, we are the aliens, not them. That makes you think about protecting your country no matter who you are or what you're doing. What impresses you most, when you don't have them day to day, are the institutions that distinguish the U.S.: the separation of powers, a free press, the right to vote, and a culture that values civic duty and service, to name but a few.

I'm not an uncritical, rah-rah American. Living abroad has sharpened my view of what's wrong with my country, too. It's obvious that we need to reinvent ourselves in various ways, but we should also be allowed to do it from within, not according to someone else's dictates.

But why the Marines?

A year ago, I was at my sister's house using her husband's laptop when I came across a video of an American in Iraq being beheaded by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. The details are beyond description here; let's just say it was obscene. At first I admit I felt a touch of the terror they wanted me to feel, but then I felt the anger they didn't. We often talk about how our policies are radicalizing young men in the Middle East to become our enemies, but rarely do we talk about how their actions are radicalizing us. In a brief moment of revulsion, sitting there in that living room, I became their blowback.

Of course, a single emotional moment does not justify a career change, and that's not what happened to me. The next day I went to lunch at the Council on Foreign Relations where I happened to meet a Marine Corps colonel who'd just come back from Iraq. He gave me a no-nonsense assessment of what was happening there, but what got to me most was his description of how the Marines behaved and how they looked after each other in a hostile world. That struck me as a metaphor for how America should be in the world at large, and it also appealed to me on a personal level. At one point I said half-jokingly that, being 31 years old, it was a shame I was too old to serve. He sat back for a second and said, "I think I've still gotcha."

The next morning I found myself roaming around the belly of the USS Intrepid, a World War II aircraft carrier museum moored a few blocks from Times Square, looking for a Marine recruiting station and thinking I'd probably lost my marbles. The officer-selection officer wasn't impressed with my age, my Chinese language abilities or the fact that I worked for one of the great newspapers of the world. His only question was, "How's your endurance?"

Well, I can sit at my desk for 12 hours straight. Fourteen if I have a bag of Reese's.

He said if I wanted a shot at this I'd have to ace the physical fitness test, where a perfect score consisted of 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches in two minutes, and a three-mile run in 18 minutes. Essentially he was telling me to pack it in and go home. After assuring him I didn't have a criminal record or any tattoos, either of which would have required yet another waiver (my age already required the first), I took an application and went back to China.

Then came the Asian tsunami last December.

I was scrambled to Thailand, where thousands of people had died in the wave. After days in the midst of the devastation, I pulled back to Thailand's Utapao Air Force Base, at one time a U.S. staging area for bombing runs over Hanoi, to write a story on the U.S.-led relief efforts. The abandoned base was now bustling with air traffic and military personnel, and the man in charge was a Marine.

Warfare and relief efforts, as it turns out, involve many skills in common. In both cases, it's 80% preparation and logistics and only a small percent of actual battle. What these guys were doing was the same thing they did in a war zone, except now the tip of the spear wasn't weapons, but food, water and medicine. It was a major operation to save people's lives, and it was clear that no other country in the world could do what they were doing. Once again, I was bumping into the U.S. Marines, and once again I was impressed.

The day before I left Thailand I decided to do my first physical training and see what happened. I started running and was winded in five minutes. The air quality in downtown Bangkok didn't help, but the biggest problem was me. I ducked into Lumpini Park in the heart of the city where I was chased around by a three-foot monitor lizard that ran faster than I did. At one point I found a playground jungle gym and managed to do half a pull-up. That's all.

I got back to Beijing and started running several days a week. Along the way I met a Marine who was studying in Beijing on a fellowship and started training with him. Pretty soon I filled out the application I'd taken from New York, got letters of recommendation from old professors and mentors, and received a letter from a senior Marine officer who took a leap of faith on my behalf.

I made a quick trip back to New York in April to take a preliminary physical fitness test with the recruitment officer at the USS Intrepid. By then I could do 13 pull-ups, all my crunches, and a three-mile run along the West Side Highway in a little under 21 minutes, all in all a mediocre performance that was barely passable. When I was done, the officer told me to wipe the foam off my mouth, but I did him one better and puked all over the tarmac. He liked that a lot. That's when we both knew I was going for it.

Friends ask if I worry about going from a life of independent thought and action to a life of hierarchy and teamwork. At the moment, I find that appealing because it means being part of something bigger than I am. As for how different it's going to be, that, too, has its appeal because it's the opposite of what I've been doing up to now. Why should I do something that's a "natural fit" with what I already do? Why shouldn't I try to expand myself?

In a way, I see the Marines as a microcosm of America at its best. Their focus isn't on weapons and tactics, but on leadership. That's the whole point of the Marines. They care about each other in good times and bad, they've always had to fight for their existence--even Harry Truman saw them as nothing more than the "Navy's police force"--and they have the strength of their traditions. Their future, like the country's, is worth fighting for. I hope to be part of the effort.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110007681
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 10:56 am
TERRORISM!! CHRISTMAS IS UNDER ATTACK!!! DISSENT IS DANGEROUS!!!

Frist, R-Tenn.
Quote:
''A nation in fear cannot be a nation that's free.''

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Patriot-Act.html
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Dec, 2005 11:57 am
Bush spying claim causes US storm

One of Bush's top aides says he did not break the law
Allegations that President George Bush authorised security agents to eavesdrop on people inside the US have caused a storm of protest, even from his allies.
Republican Senator John McCain called for an explanation, while Senator Arlen Specter, Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, called it "inappropriate".

The New York Times says the National Security Agency was allowed to spy on hundreds of people without warrants.

The NSA is normally barred from eavesdropping within the US.

Previously, surveillance on American soil was generally limited to foreign embassies.

Critics have questioned whether the surveillance of calls and e-mails has crossed constitutional limits on legal searches.

American law usually requires a secret court, known as a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, to give permission before intelligence officers can conduct surveillance on US soil.

Administration officials refused to confirm or deny details of the New York Times report, but issued a robust defence of anti-terrorist operations, saying they have prevented several attacks.

When asked about the programme on US TV, the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, said: "The president acted lawfully in every step that he has taken".

"He takes absolutely seriously his constitutional responsibility both to defend Americans and to do it within the law," she said.
0 Replies
 
 

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