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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 08:02 am
Ticomaya wrote:
blatham wrote:
Steppenwolf wrote:
The left will never get anywhere as long as they try to engage America with patronizing messages like "Oh, that's not your real belief; you dummies are just being manipulated." That's the line fed to us by elitist liberal gems like "What's the matter with Kansas," a book that I'm sure didn't raise as much as an eyebrow in Kansas. If you want to promote change, you need to engage people as equals (sans the manipulation bit).
There's a cute mis-reading. If you can find me a single instance in anything I've written (anywhere) where I've suggested to someone that the belief they hold is not their real belief, I'll send you a hundred cash. The real argument is, of course, that certain beliefs held will not likely stand up to scrutiny given a full and transparent accounting of the relevant information. For example, that Michael Scanlon is an ethical or trustworthy man. Or that DeLay's office functioned any differently after Scanlon was gone than it did with him in it.



I give you Exhibit A:

[url=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1652718#1652718]Yesterday, Bernie Latham[/url] wrote:
How does it happen that folks like mysterman and tico (we have no reason to assume they aren't fine people, all in all) are so effectively manipulated that they arrive at a place where they can justify torture and defend a government which lies to them and everyone else and does so consistently?


Or are you trying to now claim that in your earlier postings when you suggested that mysteryman and myself (and today you added Foxfyre) were being manipulated, you really meant to say that those were our "real beliefs"?


A person holds a particular belief or he does not. He can sometimes change the beliefs he holds. Any belief held may or may not correspond well with reality. Steppenwolf's sentence was not coherent, unless one imagines oneself in a science fiction film where memories and ideas are injected via a floozmatron.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 08:10 am
McTag wrote:
That was a terrible rag-bag of unfounded accusations at no-one in particular, Lash.
I imagine you didn't write it yourself, but some other lost soul did.
I am surprised you aired it here.
Are you saying anyone who doesn't support Bushco falls into these imaginary categories, and automatically holds these views?

I would have thought that anyone who opposed Bushco would be more likely to be a person who did not want to be misled by, and have his country sullied by, a self-serving bunch of duplicitous thugs.


McTag-- It mirrored your HowToBecomeARepub mess.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:10 am
Good, wasn't it? Did you read to the end?
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 10:09 am
blatham wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
blatham wrote:
Steppenwolf wrote:
The left will never get anywhere as long as they try to engage America with patronizing messages like "Oh, that's not your real belief; you dummies are just being manipulated." That's the line fed to us by elitist liberal gems like "What's the matter with Kansas," a book that I'm sure didn't raise as much as an eyebrow in Kansas. If you want to promote change, you need to engage people as equals (sans the manipulation bit).
There's a cute mis-reading. If you can find me a single instance in anything I've written (anywhere) where I've suggested to someone that the belief they hold is not their real belief, I'll send you a hundred cash. The real argument is, of course, that certain beliefs held will not likely stand up to scrutiny given a full and transparent accounting of the relevant information. For example, that Michael Scanlon is an ethical or trustworthy man. Or that DeLay's office functioned any differently after Scanlon was gone than it did with him in it.



I give you Exhibit A:

[url=http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1652718#1652718]Yesterday, Bernie Latham[/url] wrote:
How does it happen that folks like mysterman and tico (we have no reason to assume they aren't fine people, all in all) are so effectively manipulated that they arrive at a place where they can justify torture and defend a government which lies to them and everyone else and does so consistently?


Or are you trying to now claim that in your earlier postings when you suggested that mysteryman and myself (and today you added Foxfyre) were being manipulated, you really meant to say that those were our "real beliefs"?


A person holds a particular belief or he does not. He can sometimes change the beliefs he holds. Any belief held may or may not correspond well with reality. Steppenwolf's sentence was not coherent, unless one imagines oneself in a science fiction film where memories and ideas are injected via a floozmatron.


Yes, the whole idea is rather ridiculous... I guess I'm forced to concede the non-existence of floozmatrons, and the obvious disutility of hyperboles. Arguments about manipulation via disinformation and such are, of course, a different class. If only that vast swath of red between New York and California were privy to the same Internet sources available to you and I. Then we would all have the same view of objective reality -- the patently obvious correctness of the left. It must be either manipulation or idiocy that prevents us from realizing this utopia. But the whole idea is rather ridiculous, no?
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 10:17 am
McT--

I thought parts of it were cute, actually. It just took the humor out a bit to know some people think it's accurate.

Didn't make it to the last screen. I saw about eight or so, it seems. Good for a few smiles.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 12:36 pm
blatham, I´ve wondered about the same things; how does one justify the license by our congress demanded by this administration to torture prisoners?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:13 am
It's time for conservatives to get serious about rebutting the ridiculous accusations being launched against the President, most of which are completely ludicrous when you look at the facts behind them.

Here's an opening volley for this round:

The Intelligence War
What the New York Times left out of its latest assault on the Bush administration.
by Stephen F. Hayes
11/06/2005 9:25:00 AM

LAST TUESDAY, Senate Democrats fired the opening shot in the coming battle over prewar intelligence on Iraq when Minority Leader Harry Reid took the Senate into a closed session. The offensive began in earnest this weekend with a New York Times article:


A high Qaeda official in American custody was identified as a likely fabricator months before the Bush administration began to use his statements as the foundation for its claims that Iraq trained Al Qaeda members to use biological and chemical weapons, according to newly declassified portions of a Defense Intelligence Agency document. The document, an intelligence report from February 2002, said it was probable that the prisoner, Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, "was intentionally misleading the debriefers" in making claims about Iraqi support for Al Qaeda's work with illicit weapons.

The document provides the earliest and strongest indication of doubts voiced by American intelligence agencies about Mr. Libi's credibility. Without mentioning him by name, President Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney, Colin L. Powell, then secretary of state, and other administration officials repeatedly cited Mr. Libi's information as "credible" evidence that Iraq was training Al Qaeda members in the use of explosives and illicit weapons.


The article, based on declassified excerpts of the DIA report provided by Michigan Senator Carl Levin, goes on to strongly suggest that Bush administration officials simply ignored this warning to scare the public into supporting war in Iraq.

The truth, as it so often is these days, is considerably more complicated.

The Times article cites a claim George W. Bush made in a speech he gave in Cincinnati in October 2002. Bush said: "we've learned that Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb making and poisons and gases."

Why would Bush make such a claim when a DIA report had raised the possibility that al Libi was lying? One possibility: The CIA was saying that al Libi was credible.

On February 11, 2003--a year after the DIA report--CIA Director George Tenet testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee. He said: "Iraq has in the past provided training in document forgery and bomb-making to al Qaeda. It has also provided training in poisons and gases to two al Qaeda associates. One of these associates characterized the relationship he forged with Iraqi officials as successful."

In July 2004, the Senate Intelligence Committee released "Phase I" of its evaluation of prewar intelligence on Iraq. The 511-page document focused on the collection and analysis of intelligence by the U.S. intelligence community. Senate Democrats are pushing now for the completion of "Phase II." They hope to use that report to demonstrate that the Bush administration, in the words of Levin, "went way beyond the intelligence, particularly as it relates to any relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda."

The Phase I report criticized Tenet for his failure to note that the intelligence on Iraqi training of al Qaeda had come from sources of "varying reliability." It may be a reasonable criticism. But if Levin and his colleagues want to show that statements from senior Bush administration officials went "way beyond the intelligence," this seems like an odd way to do it. The head of the U.S. intelligence community made the same claim Bush did--using almost exactly the same words--some four months after Bush's speech.

The Times article also provides Levin a platform to criticize the inclusion of al Libi's claims in Colin Powell's presentation to the U.N. Security Council on February 5, 2003. From the article:


Mr. Powell relied heavily on accounts provided by Mr. Libi for his speech to the United Nations Security Council on Feb. 5, 2003, saying that he was tracing "the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to Al Qaeda."

At the time of Mr. Powell's speech, an unclassified statement by the C.I.A. described the reporting, now known to have been from Mr. Libi, as "credible." But Mr. Levin said he had learned that a classified C.I.A. assessment at the time went on to state that "the source was not in a position to know if any training had taken place."


Why, then, did Carl Levin endorse Phase I of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report? On pages 366-370, the committee evaluated the terrorism portion of Powell's presentation and offered its conclusions.


Conclusion 103. The information provided by the Central Intelligence Agency for the terrorism portion of Secretary Powell's speech was carefully vetted by both terrorism and regional analysts.

Conclusion 104. None of the portrayals of the intelligence reporting included in Secretary Powell's speech differed in any significant way from earlier assessments published by the Central Intelligence Agency.


Neither of these conclusions is mentioned in the Times piece.


LEVIN TOLD the Washington Post that he did not have the DIA document until after the Phase I report was completed. That's possible. But given his history on the issue, it's also possible that Levin was simply waiting until he could be sure his claims would be most politically damaging to the administration. (This is the man who released his own personal "study" of the intelligence on October 21, 2004, two weeks before the presidential election.) Whatever the truth of the matter, if history holds, Levin was almost certainly cherry-picking the intelligence, using only the information that supports his charges and ignoring the rest.

The rest is important. It provides much-needed context to the Bush administration's prewar claims. For example, we learn from the Phase I report that the CIA produced a classified analysis in September 2002 called Iraqi Support for Terrorism. The report assessed: "The general pattern that emerges is of al Qaeda's enduring interest in acquiring chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) expertise from Iraq."

Among the conclusions of Iraqi Support for Terrorism were these:


Regarding the Iraq-al Qaeda relationship, reporting from sources of varying reliability points to . . . incidents of training . . . [ellipses in original]

The most disturbing aspect of the relationship is the dozen or so reports of varying reliability mentioning the involvement of Iraq or Iraqi nationals in al Qaeda's efforts to obtain CBW training.


There is no question that al Libi's claims that Iraq trained al Qaeda on chemical and biological weapons were important. But one of the reasons that the CIA and Bush administration policymakers took them so seriously is because they fit a pattern of earlier reporting, albeit reporting from sources of "varying reliability."

These claims did not begin with the Bush administration. Senior Clinton administration officials repeatedly claimed that Iraq had provided chemical weapons expertise--at least--to al Qaeda in 1998. After al Qaeda terrorists struck two U.S. embassies in East Africa the Clinton administration retaliated by striking an al Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan and the al Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. In its defense of the al Shifa strikes, Clinton administration officials cited an al Qaeda presence at suspected chemical weapons facilities in Sudan. These facilities, according to both Clinton administration spokesmen and senior intelligence officials, were the result of a collaborative effort between Iraqi scientists, the Sudanese Military Industrial Corporation and al Qaeda terrorists. Clinton administration officials stand by those claims today.

Does Carl Levin think they are wrong?


ONE FINAL POINT: For two years Carl Levin has led the Democratic assault on the credibility of Bush administration's claim of an Iraq-al Qaeda connection. It is worth moment to examine his credibility on these same issues.

In the months after the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, Levin repeatedly accused the Bush administration of pressuring intelligence officials to reach conclusions that supported the case for war. He provided an example in an appearance on The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer on June 16, 2003, saying, "We were told by the intelligence community that there was a very strong link between Iraq and al Qaeda."

But Levin's allegations were undermined as the Senate Intelligence Committee interviewed analysts to determine whether they were pressured to change their analyses. None of the analysts supported his claim, a finding that was later confirmed in the Phase I report.

So Levin adjusted his allegation. "The intel didn't say that there is a direct connection between al Qaeda and Iraq," he said in an appearance on Fox News Channel on February 2, 2004. "That was not the intel. That's what this administration exaggerated to produce."

So which is it? Did the intelligence claim a "very strong link" or no direct connection?

At his press conference last week, Levin went even further. "The intelligence was not far off as it related to the nonexistent relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein."

Carl Levin may believe that there was no relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. But his claims are at odds with the views of the CIA.

As noted above, the CIA assessed in Iraqi Support for Terrorism that "the most disturbing aspect of the relationship is the dozen or so reports of varying reliability mentioning the involvement of Iraq or Iraqi nationals in al Qaeda's efforts to obtain CBW training." [emphasis added].

Fortunately, we are no longer reliant on Carl Levin's claims or even CIA analyses for our understanding of the Iraq-al Qaeda connection. Documents uncovered in postwar Iraq allow us to test Levin's views and CIA prewar assessments against the words and deeds of the former Iraqi regime.

On June 25, 2004, the New York Times reported on an internal Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) document that discussed relations between Saddam Hussein's regime and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda. The document, authenticated by the U.S. intelligence community, reports on meetings between bin Laden emissaries and Uday Hussein in 1994. The document further reports that the Iraqi regime agreed to a request from bin Laden to broadcast sermons from an anti-Saudi cleric. The IIS document advises that "cooperation between the two organizations should be allowed to develop freely through discussion and agreement." And when bin Laden was ousted from Sudan in 1996, the document reports that Iraqis were "seeking other channels through which to handle the relationship."

All of which makes one thing clear: Carl Levin may still believe there was no relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.

But the Iraqis, who might have had unique insight into such matters, thought otherwise.


Stephen F. Hayes is a senior writer at The Weekly Standard.
SOURCE
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:28 am
Quote:
[...]
White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters with Bush on his South American trip that he had not seen a report about the documents. McClellan said issues about postwar intelligence have been explored in the past and that steps have been taken to ensure the administration has the best intelligence possible.

''If Democrats want to talk about how intelligence was used, all they need to do is start by looking at their own comments that they made. Because many of their comments said we cannot wait to address this threat," McClellan said.


On yesterday's news shows, Republicans accused Democrats of trying to use faulty intelligence for partisan political purposes, and pointed to Democratic support for the resolution giving Bush the authority to go to war.

''Whether it is from defense intelligence, whether it's from the CIA, whether it's from other sources around the world, and we need to get that right to make the right decisions," said Senator George Allen, a Virginia Republican. ''But what we don't need is a bunch of partisanship."

Senator Orrin Hatch, a Utah Democrat, said a previous Senate report showed nothing improper in the handling of the intelligence, and he called the closed session a political stunt.

''We all know that the intelligence with regard to these matters was flawed. We found that out since that it was flawed," Hatch said on CBS' ''Face the Nation." ''I think everybody on the intelligence committee, everybody in the administration relied on flawed intelligence."

Rockefeller, reminded that he voted to give Bush the authority to go to war and made statements suggesting Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, said yesterday, ''I mean, I was dead, flat wrong."

© Copyright 2005 Globe Newspaper Company.
Source
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 10:35 am
Rockefeller, reminded that he voted to give Bush the authority to go to war and made statements suggesting Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, said yesterday, ''I mean, I was dead, flat wrong."

_____________________

So, if Bush did what Rocky did---Rocky lied, people died!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Nov, 2005 03:32 pm
Quote:
ANOTHER CIA DIRTY TRICK?
Deborah Orin is The Post's Washington bureau chief.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:14 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
blatham, I´ve wondered about the same things; how does one justify the license by our congress demanded by this administration to torture prisoners?


CI

You consider it for what it is. A rejection of the most fundamental American (or western, or christian, or civilized) moral and legal principles.

It's to everyone's very good fortune that John McCain integrity stands in such clear relief now to Cheney's amorality and his repugnant extremism.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18431
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:16 am
Sometime I read Doonesbury. Here's one:

http://www.doonesbury.com/strip/dailydose/index.html?uc_full_date=20051023
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:18 am
So, let's take a look at another in a long-running list of examples of how this administration lies to its citizens in order to manufacture their consent for policies and laws...

Quote:
ONLY IN a country governed by the triumvirate of George Bush, Bill Frist, and Dennis Hastert could the following set of events unfold with absurd smoothness.

The Senate narrowly approves a ''deficit reduction" bill as part of a larger package that will increase the deficit. That was last week.

The House narrowly approves its own Draconian ''deficit reduction" bill as part of a larger package that will increase the deficit. That is likely to be this week, barring a last-minute revolt of moderate congressmen.

The final version of the legislation, negotiated by conservative legislators from each chamber with moderates and Democrats cut out of the behind-closed-doors process, jettisons the sensible portions of the Senate bill and adds the worst of the House measure, presenting members with a take-it-or-leave-it proposition that asks senators to approve via the back door what they had rejected.

President Bush then approves the result, and the country is again another day older and deeper in debt.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/11/08/digging_in_on_debt_reduction/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 06:21 am
McTag

Let's throw it in, in living color...

http://images.ucomics.com/comics/db/2005/db051023.gif
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:00 am
I really don't want this story to be true...

Quote:

US forces 'used chemical weapons' during assault on city of Fallujah
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 07:54 am
"I am a uniter, not a divider"

Like all candidate mottos, this self-description from Bush didn't fall off his tongue in a moment of fresh untutored honesty. It was the consequence and product of research polling, focus groups and intense campaign analyses. Whether he believed it then, or whether he believes it now is not knowable outside of some email or whistle-blower type revelation. Whether he has operated as President in a way which corresponds to the self-description is knowable...he hasn't. The politics of his tenure has been strategically divisive.

Neoconservative radical Bill Kristol doesn't think further divisive strategies a bad thing. He thinks it a good thing to pit Americans against Americans. Why? To gain/maintain power, of course. And, for Kristol, this is exactly why Rove must be kept on board...because Rove is sooooo good at fomenting division in the country...

Quote:
It is now evident that if the administration and Republicans don't fight back aggressively, Democrats will keep gaining, and the 2006 election will be rough for Republicans. This means Republicans -- and the Bush administration -- must accept the persistence of the polarization that has marked American politics since the election of 2000. This is where Karl Rove comes back in. Between the 2000 election and the 2004 election, Rove became the master of polarization politics. And now, with this year's ill-fated experiment in trying to govern from the middle surely over, polarization along ideological and party lines is a fact of life. Ethics classes won't ameliorate Democratic hostility to Bush. Nor will firing Rove. In fact, throwing Rove overboard -- dropping the political adviser who has been with Bush during his past comebacks and greatest triumphs -- will increase the sense of a White House in disarray and retreat.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/324nmkqa.asp?pg=1"

White is black. Up is down. According to the view from Kristol's criippled perch out in the ozone, Bush has been "governing from the center"!?

One day, just maybe, the local supporters (here) of this administration and its ideologues will gain some perspective on where they have been taken on this ride.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 08:39 am
A good piece here on the unprecedented power weilded by a vice president...
http://www.slate.com/id/2129686/nav/tap1/

At the time of the nomination of Cheney, it was the popular wisdom that this appointment (we'll recall that Cheney was in charge of the search for a candidate - and he found himself) gave the Bush ticket a needed aspect of maturity, experience, 'gravitas' and, even, capability.

To a great extent, that senior/junior positioning held sway (and for good reasons) even given the constant PR moves to have Bush appear up front and in charge (see Woodwards' account of how pre-war decisions got made only after Bush visited Cheney's office).

What must be a terribly sobering prospect for the Republican and conservative movement strategists now, is the prospect of Bush losing both Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.

What will this man look like without those other two behind him?

It's not just the question of how policy will be presented/carried forward, but how hollow and ineffective and incompetent will Bush be seen to be.

On the other hand, perhaps if cheney leaves, Bush can replace him with Brownie.
0 Replies
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 09:00 am
Quote:
The Senate narrowly approves a ''deficit reduction" bill as part of a larger package that will increase the deficit. That was last week.


The deficit. Let's take a look at it after years of Bush "progress".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/kelticwizard100/GreenspanDeficitB.jpg
Table F1.

Pretty much sums up the direction of this Administration in most things. The wrong direction.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Nov, 2005 09:06 am
Quote:
At one point, Mr. da Silva even exhibited a map of his country, which is larger than the continental United States. "Wow! Brazil is big," Mr. Amorim quoted the American president as responding.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/07/international/07prexy.html
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 12:47 pm
blatham wrote:
I really don't want this story to be true...

Quote:

US forces 'used chemical weapons' during assault on city of Fallujah
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article325560.ece


Well, part of it isn't true. White Phosphorus is in no way a chemical weapon.

Here is a good page on exactly what WP is:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/wp.htm



But we certainly did use white phosphorus in the first, aborted, attempt on Fallujah:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/04/11/military/iraq/19_30_504_10_04.txt

Quote:
Bogert is a mortar team leader who directed his men to fire round after round of high explosives and white phosphorus charges into the city Friday and Saturday, never knowing what the targets were or what damage the resulting explosions caused.

"We had all this SASO (security and stabilization operations) training back home," he said. "And then this turns into a real goddamned war."

Just as his team started to eat a breakfast of packaged rations Saturday, Bogert got a fire mission over the radio.

"Stand by!" he yelled, sending Lance Cpls. Jonathan Alexander and Jonathan Millikin scrambling to their feet.

Shake 'n' bake

Joking and rousting each other like boys just seconds before, the men were instantly all business. With fellow Marines between them and their targets, a lot was at stake.

Bogert received coordinates of the target, plotted them on a map and called out the settings for the gun they call "Sarah Lee."

Millikin, 21, from Reno, Nev., and Alexander, 23, from Wetumpka, Ala., quickly made the adjustments. They are good at what they do.

"Gun up!" Millikin yelled when they finished a few seconds later, grabbing a white phosphorus round from a nearby ammo can and holding it over the tube.

"Fire!" Bogert yelled, as Millikin dropped it.

The boom kicked dust around the pit as they ran through the drill again and again, sending a mixture of burning white phosphorus and high explosives they call "shake 'n' bake" into a cluster of buildings where insurgents have been spotted all week.

They say they have never seen what they've hit, nor did they talk about it as they dusted off their breakfast and continued their hilarious routine of personal insults and name-calling.




And we certainly used white phosphorus in the "Battle of Fallujah".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A35979-2004Nov9

Quote:
Some of the heaviest damage apparently was incurred Monday night from air and artillery attacks that coincided with the entry of ground troops into the city. U.S. warplanes dropped eight 2,000-pound bombs on the city overnight, and artillery boomed throughout the night and into the morning.

"Usually we keep the gloves on," said Army Capt. Erik Krivda, of Gaithersburg, the senior officer in charge of the 1st Infantry Division's Task Force 2-2 tactical operations command center. "For this operation, we took the gloves off."

Some artillery guns fired white phosphorous rounds that create a screen of fire that cannot be extinguished with water. Insurgents reported being attacked with a substance that melted their skin, a reaction consistent with white phosphorous burns.

Kamal Hadeethi, a physician at a regional hospital, said, "The corpses of the mujaheddin which we received were burned, and some corpses were melted."




We also used napalm in the opening days of the war:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20030805-9999_1n5bomb.html
0 Replies
 
 

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