Goddam, ticoyama. Do you actually hold Clinton responsible for this war?
snood wrote:Goddam, ticoyama. Do you actually hold Clinton responsible for this war?
I hold Saddam Hussein responsible for this war.
Ticomaya wrote:snood wrote:Goddam, ticoyama. Do you actually hold Clinton responsible for this war?
I hold Saddam Hussein responsible for this war.
It's not a war.
+Now,since many on the left claim that Iraq was no threat to us,lets see you apply that same thought to your hero.
What threat was Slobodan Milosevic and Bosnia to the US?
What threat was so strong that Clinton bombed an innocent country,and then invaded?
BTW,we still occupy Bosnia.
I served in Iraq.
I am proud of my service,proud of my actions,and proud of what has been accomplished so far.
Now,since many on the left claim that Iraq was no threat to us,lets see you apply that same thought to your hero.
What threat was Slobodan Milosevic and Bosnia to the US?
What threat was so strong that Clinton bombed an innocent country,and then invaded?
BTW,we still occupy Bosnia.
Also,in 1994 Bill Clinton invaded Haiti.
WHY?
What threat were they to us?
How did they threaten our security?
And you want to talk about a country with no military.
Lets look at Haiti's...
Marines, Army Rangers, Navy SEALs and other special units would overwhelm the ill-equipped 7,700-member Haitian military, only 500 of whom are organized into combat units and capable of mounting any kind of resistance. Haiti's navy is just three workable patrol boats. Its air force consists of two small planes.
It has no allies to depend upon for help.
So poorly armed are its soldiers that there are barely 150 rounds of ammunition per man, with no resupply - enough for about half an hour of fighting, provided the Haitians can avoid firing wildly in panic.
D-Day would be the assault. On D-Day plus 1, the work of putting the country's government back together would begin.
``I would liken this invasion to a SWAT team raid on a crack house, where we had given the drug forces, the criminals, clear warning that we are coming,'' said retired Rear Adm. Eugene Carroll, an analyst with the Center for Defense Information in Washington. ``We will kick in the doorand there will be nobody at home.''
Thats from here...
http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/VA-news/VA-Pilot/issues/1994/vp940716/07160286.htm
I dont recall them being a threat to us,but Clinton ordered invasions of both countries,and the dems didnt object.
So,if you want to oppose the war,thats fine.
But,at least try to be consistant,ok.
Consider one memo highlighted in a Capitol Hill hearing Wednesday that Scanlon, a former aide to Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, sent the Coushatta Tribe of Louisiana to describe his strategy for protecting the tribe's gambling business. In plain terms, Scanlon confessed the source code of recent Republican electoral victories: target religious conservatives, distract everyone else, and then railroad through complex initiatives.
"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them." The brilliance of this strategy was twofold: Not only would most voters not know about an initiative to protect Coushatta gambling revenues, but religious "wackos" could be tricked into supporting gambling at the Coushatta casino even as they thought they were opposing it.
The Indian Affairs committee is scheduled to hold one more hearing on Abramoff before issuing a report; it still needs to gather testimony from Italia Federici, a close associate of Interior Secretary Gale Norton. Federici is accused of setting up a meeting for Abramoff with Interior Department officials after her nonprofit company, Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy, received six-figure donations from Abramoff's clients. Environmentalists charge that Federici's company -- which was founded by Norton -- is a front for big industry polluters. Federici was scheduled to testify Wednesday, but has so far ducked a Senate subpoena. "I believe U.S. marshals will do their duty," McCain said. "She has been unable to be located."
At the same time, the former top procurement official in the White House, David Safavian, has been arrested on charges of lying about a trip he took to Scotland with Abramoff. Another former White House official, Timothy Flanigan, recently withdrew his nomination to become deputy attorney general, after it became clear that he would have to testify under oath to the Senate about his relationship with Abramoff.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.
"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seing and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force ?- if necessary ?- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "[W]ithout question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.
Did Clinton CLAIM that, in the conflicts you mention, there was a threat to the US? Did he lie about the situation?
You are comparing apples with carrots.
Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005 9:58 p.m. EST
Saddam's 500-ton Uranium Stockpile
Thanks to Leakgate Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's decision to indict "Scooter" Libby last week, Bush administration accuser Joe Wilson is once again the toast of Washington, D.C. - recycling the fifteen minutes of fame he first purchased in July 2003 with the claim that Bush lied about Iraq's plan to acquire uranium from Niger.
Why was Bush's uranium claim so important? Because if true, the mere attempt by the Iraqi dictator to acquire uranium would show that he had clear and incontrovertible plans to restart his nuclear program.
Maybe that's why the press seldom discusses the fact that Saddam already had a staggeringly large stockpile of uranium - 500 tons, to be exact.
And if his mere intention to acquire uranium was enough to justify fears of Saddam's nuclear ambition, what would the average person deduce from that fact that he'd already stockpiled a huge quantity of the bombmaking fuel?
In its May 22, 2004 edition, the New York Times confirmed a myriad of reports on Saddam's nuclear fuel stockpile - and revealed a chilling detail unknown to weapons inspectors before the war: that Saddam had begun to partially enrich his uranium stash.
The Times noted:
"The repository, at Tuwaitha, a centerpiece of Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program, . . . . holds more than 500 tons of uranium . . . . Some 1.8 tons is classified as low-enriched uranium."
Thomas B. Cochran, director of the nuclear program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, told the Times that "the low-enriched version could be useful to a nation with nuclear ambitions."
"A country like Iran," Mr. Cochran said, "could convert that into weapons-grade material with a lot fewer centrifuges than would be required with natural uranium."
The paper conceded that while Saddam's nearly 2 tons of partially enriched uranium was "a more potent form" of the nuclear fuel, it was "still not sufficient for a weapon.
Consulted about the low-enriched uranium discovery, however, Ivan Oelrich, a physicist at the Federation of American Scientists, told the Associated Press that if it was of the 3 percent to 5 percent level of enrichment common in fuel for commercial power reactors, the 1.8 tons could be used to produce enough highly enriched uranium to make a single nuclear bomb.
Luckily, Iraq didn't have even the small number of centrifuges necessary to get the job done.
Or did it?
The physicist tapped by Saddam to run his centrifuge program says that after the first Gulf War, the program was largely dismantled. But it wasn't destroyed.
In fact, according to what he wrote in his 2004 book, "The Bomb in My Garden," Dr. Mahdi Obeidi told U.S. interrogators: "Saddam kept funding the IAEC [Iraq Atomic Energy Commission] from 1991 ... until the war in 2003."
"I was developing the centrifuge for the weapons" right through 1997, he revealed.
And after that, Dr. Obeidi said, Saddam ordered him under penalty of death to keep the technology available to resume Iraq's nuke program at a moment's notice.
Dr. Obeidi said he buried "the full set of blueprints, designs - everything to restart the centrifuge program - along with some critical components of the centrifuge" under the garden of his Baghdad home.
"I had to maintain the program to the bitter end," he explained. All the while the Iraqi physicist was aware that he held the key to Saddam's continuing nuclear ambitions.
"The centrifuge is the single most dangerous piece of nuclear technology," Dr. Obeidi said in his book. "With advances in centrifuge technology, it is now possible to conceal a uranium enrichment program inside a single warehouse."
Consider: 500 tons of yellowcake stored at Saddam's old nuclear weapons plant, where he'd managed to partially enrich 1.8 tons. And the equipment and blueprints that could enrich enough uranium to make a bomb stored away for safekeeping. And all of it at the Iraqi dictator's disposal.
If the average American were aware of these undisputed facts, the debate over Iraq's weapons of mass destruction would have been decided long ago - in President Bush's favor.
One more detail that Mr. Wilson and his media backers don't like to discuss: the reason Niger was such a likely candidate for Saddam's uranium shopping spree.
Responding to the firestorm that erupted after Wilson's July 2003 column, Prime Minister Tony Blair told reporters:
"In case people should think that the whole idea of a link between Iraq and Niger was some invention, in the 1980s we know for sure that Iraq purchased round about 270 tons of uranium from Niger."
Quote:Wednesday, Nov. 2, 2005 9:58 p.m. EST
Saddam's 500-ton Uranium Stockpile
Thanks to Leakgate Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's decision to indict "Scooter" Libby last week, Bush administration accuser Joe Wilson is once again the toast of Washington, D.C. - recycling the fifteen minutes of fame he first purchased in July 2003 with the claim that Bush lied about Iraq's plan to acquire uranium from Niger.
Why was Bush's uranium claim so important? Because if true, the mere attempt by the Iraqi dictator to acquire uranium would show that he had clear and incontrovertible plans to restart his nuclear program.
Maybe that's why the press seldom discusses the fact that Saddam already had a staggeringly large stockpile of uranium - 500 tons, to be exact.
And if his mere intention to acquire uranium was enough to justify fears of Saddam's nuclear ambition, what would the average person deduce from that fact that he'd already stockpiled a huge quantity of the bombmaking fuel?
In its May 22, 2004 edition, the New York Times confirmed a myriad of reports on Saddam's nuclear fuel stockpile - and revealed a chilling detail unknown to weapons inspectors before the war: that Saddam had begun to partially enrich his uranium stash.
The Times noted:
"The repository, at Tuwaitha, a centerpiece of Saddam Hussein's nuclear weapons program, . . . . holds more than 500 tons of uranium . . . . Some 1.8 tons is classified as low-enriched uranium."
Thomas B. Cochran, director of the nuclear program at the Natural Resources Defense Council, told the Times that "the low-enriched version could be useful to a nation with nuclear ambitions."
"A country like Iran," Mr. Cochran said, "could convert that into weapons-grade material with a lot fewer centrifuges than would be required with natural uranium."
The paper conceded that while Saddam's nearly 2 tons of partially enriched uranium was "a more potent form" of the nuclear fuel, it was "still not sufficient for a weapon.
Consulted about the low-enriched uranium discovery, however, Ivan Oelrich, a physicist at the Federation of American Scientists, told the Associated Press that if it was of the 3 percent to 5 percent level of enrichment common in fuel for commercial power reactors, the 1.8 tons could be used to produce enough highly enriched uranium to make a single nuclear bomb.
Luckily, Iraq didn't have even the small number of centrifuges necessary to get the job done.
Or did it?
The physicist tapped by Saddam to run his centrifuge program says that after the first Gulf War, the program was largely dismantled. But it wasn't destroyed.
In fact, according to what he wrote in his 2004 book, "The Bomb in My Garden," Dr. Mahdi Obeidi told U.S. interrogators: "Saddam kept funding the IAEC [Iraq Atomic Energy Commission] from 1991 ... until the war in 2003."
"I was developing the centrifuge for the weapons" right through 1997, he revealed.
And after that, Dr. Obeidi said, Saddam ordered him under penalty of death to keep the technology available to resume Iraq's nuke program at a moment's notice.
Dr. Obeidi said he buried "the full set of blueprints, designs - everything to restart the centrifuge program - along with some critical components of the centrifuge" under the garden of his Baghdad home.
"I had to maintain the program to the bitter end," he explained. All the while the Iraqi physicist was aware that he held the key to Saddam's continuing nuclear ambitions.
"The centrifuge is the single most dangerous piece of nuclear technology," Dr. Obeidi said in his book. "With advances in centrifuge technology, it is now possible to conceal a uranium enrichment program inside a single warehouse."
Consider: 500 tons of yellowcake stored at Saddam's old nuclear weapons plant, where he'd managed to partially enrich 1.8 tons. And the equipment and blueprints that could enrich enough uranium to make a bomb stored away for safekeeping. And all of it at the Iraqi dictator's disposal.
If the average American were aware of these undisputed facts, the debate over Iraq's weapons of mass destruction would have been decided long ago - in President Bush's favor.
One more detail that Mr. Wilson and his media backers don't like to discuss: the reason Niger was such a likely candidate for Saddam's uranium shopping spree.
Responding to the firestorm that erupted after Wilson's July 2003 column, Prime Minister Tony Blair told reporters:
"In case people should think that the whole idea of a link between Iraq and Niger was some invention, in the 1980s we know for sure that Iraq purchased round about 270 tons of uranium from Niger."
... Wouldn't it have been easier to just openly and publicly attack Wilson's report on the merits?
Judging from many of your posts on this subject, Tico, I think you may be succumbing to a logical fallacy: just because one person is wrong doesn't mean his opponent is right. Wilson's ineptitude and dishonesty could have been handled without the leaks, and without the subsequent denial of those leaks. In other words, the administration erred in its methods, even if they were right to attack Wilson's report. I have no idea if this amounts to a valid obstruction of justice or other charge (we'll see), but the administration was sloppy and opaque when we needed precision and transparency. That's not a crime in and of itself, but it's not the sort of leadership that this country deserves.
November 03, 2005, 8:08 a.m.
"The Right Place at the Right Time"
A Navy lieutenant on serving in Iraq.
By Michael Fumento
In May I was embedded with a detachment of the 8th Engineer Support Battalion Explosive Ordnance Disposal [EOD] at Camp Fallujah, Iraq, headed by Navy Lt. Cameron Chen. In a war in which most U.S. casualties are caused by bombs, no unit is more important ?- or more hated by the enemy ?- than EOD. Upon finishing his deployment, Lt. Chen sent out this eloquent letter which (with his permission) I share precisely because it is unlike what you're accustomed to reading in the newspapers.
Dear Family and Friends,
I am sitting on the flight line awaiting a helo [helicopter] to take me away from Fallujah. The last couple of weeks have been a whirlwind. Our time here in Iraq is quickly coming to an end.
We have had an outstanding deployment. The number of responses we have conducted has been absolutely astounding. As a detachment, we conducted 1,009 EOD response missions. We neutralized 327 actual IEDs [improvised explosive devices] and 3 VBIEDs [vehicle-borne explosive devices], investigated 69 post-blast scenes, cleared 209 UXO [unexploded ordnance] calls and eliminated 146 weapons caches. In all we destroyed 21,328 items totaling 95,918 lbs of captured enemy ordnance.
Fallujah looks completely different from when we first arrived. The progress in the city has been frustratingly slow but impressive nonetheless. A steady stream of people flow in to re-inhabit its neighborhoods. The new police force is on every street corner.
Every effort is being made to get the Iraqi people able to manage themselves. The Marines are still omnipresent on the streets but you see more and more Iraqi police replacing them. A lot of the trash has been removed, reconstruction is occurring everywhere, and the bustle of people on the streets engaged in commerce is refreshing.
I noticed a gaggle of young girls in uniform blue dresses, pig tails, and white shirts on their way to school. The number of families implies to me that people are fleeing to the security provided by the Iraqis and Marines inside the checkpoints that limit access to the city.
We are still wary of the environment and the surge of incidents correlating with the beginning of Ramadan confirms that the Wild West has yet to be tamed. Detachment 9's [his unit's successor] arrival corresponded with a renewal of activity. They hit the ground running with 30 calls in the first 3 days.
Chief [Warrant Officer] Kellogg was interrogating the witness on the scene of an IED incident when a sniper shot the witness in the back directly in front of him. Chief said he had never been so amped ["excited," obviously in a bad sense] in his life ?- a rude awakening to another day in the city.
[As this piece went to press, one of Chen's former response trucks was hit by a pressure-plate IED killing one man and seriously wounding another.]
What matters most is how this experience has changed us. Untested, you inevitably doubt yourself and how you will act when the shooting starts or you're on top of an improvised device about to explode. Now we know. It's a gut check when you jock up every day and go outside the [protective] wire not knowing if you will come back. It's exhilarating.
Mac, like most of us, is intensely competitive and nothing excites him more than beating an insurgent at his devious game. Nothing is more clear-cut than going out there and beating the bad guys by disrupting their bomb. But despite all that, he misses his kids. It wrenches his heart to be absent.
Jehu is more introspective. He feels that life here changes your perspective on what is important. In comparison, most problems are trivial especially when compared to the plight of the Iraqi people stuck in the middle of this mess.
We have had a number of close calls that can only be explained by God's grace. Just yesterday we recovered a video tape with footage of Bryan and Mac taken by an insurgent trying to detonate an IED on them. It really brings it all very close to home.
I firmly believe we have made some headway and added to the security of this country and ours. I am not hopelessly optimistic though. The IED incidents are symptomatic of a deeper problem. This is a culture that begets violent regime change. Until people are educated in non-violent protest, all we can do is disarm the masses which will make them inevitably vulnerable.
Regardless of the outcome though, at least people are learning to voice their opinion in a democratic manner.
The helo has come and moved us on to our next stop on the trip home. I can't adequately describe the feeling of sitting in a bird and flying out of the familiar yet alien place that has been your "home" for so long.
It's very odd to leave others behind and watch the lights fade away in the darkness. The rumble and noise of the chopper blades amplifies your senses. The sensation of being lifted away from danger is like being rescued by an angel.
We have been incredibly fortunate to have the privilege of serving here in Iraq. This has been one of the greatest accomplishments of my life. We have done all we could possibly do. We cleared innumerable roads of hazards and prevented countless loss of life. We were in the right place at the right time.
Everyone is grateful for the assignment and thankful for having survived to tell the stories. I want to thank everyone for your continuous support and encouragement regardless of political persuasion and opinion of the war. We couldn't have done it without you.
God bless,
LT Cameron Chen, USN
?- Michael Fumento is a former paratrooper, nationally syndicated columnist with Scripps Howard News Service, and a senior fellow at Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C. He was embedded in May with the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force in Camp Fallujah, Iraq to which the 8th EOD is attached.
