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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 11:38 am
Interesting when it's OK to "politicize" something and when it isn't. Rove made a speech some months ago in which he chided the Democrats for their response to terrorism. Was that OK to do, Foxfyre?

But how dare anyone "politicize" the federal response to Katrina.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:10 pm
I don't see any parallel or rational comparison between the two, D. Perhaps you could enlighten me?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:12 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
To KW: The eye of the hurricane and the brunt of the damage hit Mississippi and Alabama. In the initial aftermath of the storm, both the Mayor of NO and the governor of LA issued statements of relief: they had dodged the bullet again. It wasn't until the levee broke--a levee that had been upgraded and nobody expected to break by the way--that the more serious emergency developed.


New Orleans was in the direct path of Katrina and received significant impact. The eye did move eastward, but that put New Orleans under the strongest winds -- those right around the eye. Louisiana and New Orleans received just as much damage as their neighbors. The levees -- now that's a whole other subject. But I'll just say for now that it was announced that the levees failed the very next day.

Quote:
It seems obvious to me that it would be a stretch to say that FEMA was remiss in focusing their greater attention to the more hurricane ravaged states and thus they were slower than usual getting to the unfolding disaster in New Orleans. Meanwhile, the local and state authorities did little to mitigate their losses.


I think it would be a stretch to say that FEMA's greater attention was in the other states as their performance there is also criticized and considered inadequate. And state and local authorities in LA indicated in advance (see revel's linked docs) that they would not have the resources to recover from this storm. What did you want them to do?

Quote:
My primary objection is to those who are trying to politicize this and score points from the disaster.


That explains why this is such a hot topic on the Bush Supporters Aftermath thread, the very first mention of which being from one such supporter.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:24 pm
OK, I'll try: Two crises with policy implications. One can be politicized (evidently) and one cannot. How's that?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:29 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
My primary objection is to those who are trying to politicize this and score points from the disaster. I think that is misdirected and wrong.


I just can't get enough of this one. My apologies, Fox.

http://www.nationalreview.com/editorial/editors200509031654.asp

Quote:
It will only address that vulnerability with a performance in coming days and weeks that is more in keeping with the GOP's image as the "daddy party," the party of competence, the party that can be trusted in times of crisis. That is the main thing. But symbolism will matter too. No single step would go further to dramatize the GOP's commitment to rebuilding New Orleans than announcing now that the party's 2008 convention will be held in the recovering city. Such a move would signal the party's confidence in the Big Easy's renewal, and put it at the forefront of what should be similar commitments from private actors to do their part to help New Orleans come back.


I hear something, wha..what is it? It's, why I think it's a new tune!
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:29 pm
Okay D. But one is criticizing a specific group for its reaction to a specific issue. The other is demonizing a specific group for the mistakes, errors, and ommissions of everybody. Do you not see the difference?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 12:52 pm
The only problem with that piece FD, is look at how much criticism the GOP got by holding its convention in NYC last time? They said they wanted to throw their support to that recovering city. The other side, however, blasted them for politicizing 9/11.

Can't you just hear the caterwauling if the GOP held its convention in NO. THe GOP again would be atempting to throw its support to that recovering city. But do you honestly believe the other side would not blast them for attempting to capitalize on the death and misery of the citizens there?

That's why the GOP, more specifically George Bush, is unlikely to get any kind of fair play from a Leftish media or Democrats who use any opportunity to discredit Republicans. If Bush had acted more aggressively, he would have certainly been criticized for bullying and running roughshod over a Democrat governor and mayor who would "have done it better or certainly no worse". Because he didn't, he is accused of footdragging at the expense of the people of Louisiana while the incompetence of those same Democrat leaders gets mostly a pass from the Left.

Quote:
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:18 pm
1) They DID know the levees would not hold. They were NOT repaired and expected to hold as Foxfyre stated on previous page.

Quote:
Speaking earlier Monday from Baton Rouge, just upriver from New Orleans, Brown said that his agency had "planned for this kind of disaster for many years because we've always known about New Orleans' situation." Much of the city is below sea level, making it extremely vulnerable to storm flooding.

The potential damage of such a storm striking New Orleans has long been a worry of federal agencies including the National Weather Service, FEMA and the Environmental Protection Agency, among others.



2) Troops and personel were not diverted to other states. Supplies and support were stationed before hand in a semicircle around New Orleans. So what took so friggin long for them to get to the Superdome?

Quote:
WASHINGTON - Baby formula from the Agriculture Department, communications equipment and medical teams from the Defense Department and generators, water and ice from the Federal Emergency Management Agency are among the assistance ready for the victims of Hurricane Katrina.

As the Category 4 the storm surged ashore just east of New Orleans on Monday, FEMA had medical teams, rescue squads and groups prepared to supply food and water poised in a semicircle around the city, said agency Director Michael Brown.



3) The evacuation ordered by the Mayor and Governor was praised by Brown on the 29th. He was impressed, actually!

Quote:
Brown, in a telephone interview with The Associated Press, said the evacuation of the city and the general emergency response were working as planned in an exercise a year ago. "I was impressed with the evacuation, once it was ordered it was very smooth," he said.


Yahoo News / AP
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:21 pm
The levee that broke had been the most recently updated. Even the worst of Bush critics have acknowledged that. The Corps of Engineers have already said that is the last place they would have anticipated a breach.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:24 pm
Chronology of Bush's FEMA Failure
Thanks to Osso Buco for the source of this report. ---BBB

Ocnus.Net
Dark Side
Chronology of Bush's FEMA Failure
By Henry Breitrose, Stanford 1/9/05
Sep 3, 2005, 07:03

January 2001: Bush appoints Joe Allbaugh, a crony from Texas, as head of FEMA. Allbaugh has no previous experience in disaster management.

April 2001: Budget Director Mitch Daniels announces the Bush administration's goal of privatizing much of FEMA's work. In May, Allbaugh confirms that FEMA will be downsized: "Many are concerned that federal disaster assistance may have evolved into both an oversized entitlement program...." he said. "Expectations of when the federal government should be involved and the degree of involvement may have ballooned beyond what is an appropriate level."

2001: FEMA designates a major hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the three "likeliest, most catastrophic disasters facing this country."

December 2002: After less than two years at FEMA, Allbaugh announces he is leaving to start up a consulting firm that advises companies seeking to do business in Iraq. He is succeeded by his deputy, Michael Brown, who, like Allbaugh, has no previous experience in disaster management.

March 2003: FEMA is downgraded from a cabinet level position and folded into the Department of Homeland Security. Its mission is refocused on fighting acts of terrorism.

2003: Under its new organization chart within DHS, FEMA's preparation and planning functions are reassigned to a new Office of Preparedness and Response. FEMA will henceforth focus only on response and recovery.

Summer 2004: FEMA denies Louisiana's pre-disaster mitigation funding requests. Says Jefferson Parish flood zone manager Tom Rodrigue: "You would think we would get maximum consideration....This is what the grant program called for. We were more than qualified for it."

June 2004: The Army Corps of Engineers budget for levee construction in New Orleans is slashed. Jefferson Parish emergency management chiefs Walter Maestri comments: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay."

June 2005: Funding for the New Orleans district of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is cut by a record $71.2 million. One of the hardest-hit areas is the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, which was created after the May 1995 flood to improve drainage in Jefferson, Orleans and St. Tammany parishes.

August 2005: While New Orleans is undergoing a slow motion catastrophe, Bush mugs for the cameras, cuts a cake for John McCain, plays the guitar for Mark Wills, delivers an address about V-J day, and continues with his vacation. When he finally gets around to acknowledging the scope of the unfolding disaster, he delivers only a photo op on Air Force One and a flat, defensive, laundry list speech in the Rose Garden.

A crony with no relevant experience was installed as head of FEMA. Mitigation budgets for New Orleans were slashed even though it was known to be one of the top three risks in the country. FEMA was deliberately downsized as part of the Bush administration's conservative agenda to reduce the role of government. After DHS was created, FEMA's preparation and planning functions were taken away.

Actions have consequences. No one could predict that a hurricane the size of Katrina would hit this year, but the slow federal response when it did happen was no accident. It was the result of four years of deliberate Republican policy and budget choices that favor ideology and partisan loyalty at the expense of operational competence. It's the Bush administration in a nutshell..

Source: Ocnus.net 2004
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:39 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Can't you just hear the caterwauling if the GOP held its convention in NO. THe GOP again would be atempting to throw its support to that recovering city. But do you honestly believe the other side would not blast them for attempting to capitalize on the death and misery of the citizens there?


That's a beautiful tune. They're not playing politics, they're throwing their support behind that recoverind city. It sounds so melodic that way.

As to the opinion journal article, it's been well documented that the governor of Louisiana DID declare a state of emergency and every other thing and DID request federal assistance and DID implement its plan. The feds WERE asked for help, repeatedly. Even the president has said that the response was unacceptable. There's really nothing else to say.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:47 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The levee that broke had been the most recently updated. Even the worst of Bush critics have acknowledged that. The Corps of Engineers have already said that is the last place they would have anticipated a breach.


No, the update was incomplete, and what the Corps of Engineers says is that even with the update, the levees were only designed to withstand a cat 3 hurricane. They expected flooding, they just expected it to spill over, not blow through.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 01:56 pm
Quote:
[...]
The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane- and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs. According to New Orleans CityBusiness this June 5:


The district has identified $35 million in projects to build and improve levees, floodwalls and pumping stations in St. Bernard, Orleans, Jefferson and St. Charles parishes. Those projects are included in a Corps line item called Lake Pontchartrain, where funding is scheduled to be cut from $5.7 million this year to $2.9 million in 2006. Naomi said it's enough to pay salaries but little else.


"We'll do some design work. We'll design the contracts and get them ready to go if we get the money. But we don't have the money to put the work in the field, and that's the problem," Naomi said.

There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:


That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount.


But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said.
[...]
Source
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 03:23 pm
No matter how the Bushophobes care to spin it, the fact reamains that by law it is the responsibilty of a state's governor to request Federal assisstance, a happenstance acknowledged and accommodated by Louisiana's own disaster plan (See Footnote); all the Federal declaration of disaster does is authorize the government to provide the funds and specific other support requested. All Nagin did, apart from dither, was complain, What Blanco did, along with dithering, was tell the Federal Government it was her party, but the Federal Government was welcome to pick up the tab and haul off the garbage.

Satellite photo taken 10:00 AM CDT Wednesday Morning, August 31 clearly shows Nagin and Blanco failed to utilize the resources still available to them, doing nothing to prevent the onrushing disaster.

http://www.blindmanphoto.com/images/Stop-Blaming-FEMA.jpg


Footnote
Quote:
:STATE OF LOUISIANA
EMERGENCY OPERATIONS PLAN
SUPPLEMENT 1A


SOUTHEAST LOUISIANA
HURRICANE EVACUATION
AND SHELTERING PLAN
REVISED JANUARY 2000

PART I: GENERAL
A. SUMMARY:

The Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Evacuation and Sheltering Plan is
intended to provide a framework within which the parishes can coordinate
their actions with State government in order to deal with a catastrophic
hurricane.
A catastrophic hurricane is defined as a hurricane in Category 3 Slow (5 mph
or less forward speed), and categories 4 or 5 on the Saffir-Simpson Scale of
hurricane strength (See Annex A). Hurricanes in Category 1, 2 and 3 Fast,
are considered less destructive and can be met through the use of normal
emergency preparedness procedures on the part of the Parish and State
governments.
The overall strategy for dealing with a catastrophic hurricane is to evacuate as
much of the at risk population as possible from the path of the storm and
relocate them to a place of relative safety outside the projected high water
mark of the storm surge flooding and hurricane force winds ...

... B. PURPOSE
It is the intent of this plan to establish guidelines for the direction, control and
coordination of evacuation of the Southeast Louisiana Region in order to
protect life and property ...

... Organization and Assignment of Responsibilities
The organization and assignment of primary and secondary responsibilities
are detailed in the State Emergency Operations Plan (EOP). Listed below are
the key participants and their roles in the event of a catastrophic hurricane:
1. Governor:
a. Proclaim a State of Emergency.
b. Issue supplementary declarations and orders, as the situation
requires.
c. Authorize and direct the use of State government personnel and
other resources to deal with the emergency.
d. Authorize and direct the authorities of non-risk parishes to
coordinate the opening and operation of shelters with DSS in
conjunction with ARC, and to lend all possible assistance to the
evacuation and shelter effort.
e. Request Federal government assistance as needed.

The Governors of other states requested specific FEMA manpower and material assistance in timely manner, as did Governor Jeb Bush of Florida when dealing with Ivan last year. Blanco did not, in fact insisted on maintaining control, and officially requested FEMA manpower and material assistance on Wednesday, August 31:

Quote:
... Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law ...

... Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said.
Source



Unsurprising now would be Blanco's objection to Nagin's most recent manadatory evacuation order; after all, only the Governor can order, and request Federal funding for, such a thing, you know.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 03:48 pm
Timber

Methinks you do protest too much.

Whatever the local faults were, Bush policies are culpable. I think the people realise this now.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 03:50 pm
Well, I think some people "realized" this before anything at all was known.

Prescience or prejudice?
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 03:53 pm
Ahhh... the Blame Game:

Quote:
Blame Amid the Tragedy

By BOB WILLIAMS


As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible -- local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.

The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.

In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected -- and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 03:59 pm
Looking at that last paragraph, from here I would say it was Washington and the Administration publicity machine who were more concerned with buck-passing.
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 04:01 pm
Apparently all you saw from where you are standing is the last paragraph.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 04:07 pm
I would also say that to labour the point that "the federal government's role is to offer aid upon request" is simply too lame.
All emergency planners knew the scale and severity of what was about to happen. They should have been rolling.
0 Replies
 
 

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