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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 09:50 am
Quote:
In speech, Bush to get specific on Iraq strategy
Difficulties will be acknowledged, White House says

By Susan Milligan and Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | June 28, 2005

WASHINGTON -- President Bush, facing increasing public unhappiness over the war in Iraq, will lay out a ''very specific" strategy for success in a prime-time speech tonight, acknowledging the difficulties the United States faces in Iraq while reassuring Americans that the mission is progressing, a White House official said yesterday.

While Bush has previously talked about the need to stabilize the country politically and fully turn over responsibility for day-to-day security to the Iraqis, ''this is going to be the president talking about it in a very specific way," including how the strategy is being implemented and how close it is to succeeding, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

Bush will deliver the speech -- scheduled on the first anniversary of the official turnover of power to the Iraqis from a US-led authority -- as he is under growing pressure from Capitol Hill and the public to deliver a plan to take American soldiers out of Iraq.

While lawmakers disagree about whether the Pentagon should set a timetable for withdrawal of US troops, many say their constituents are becoming increasingly disgruntled over the war's cost -- both human and financial.

Bush is not expected tonight to change course on Iraq, and he continues to emphasize the progress made there.

''The key to success in Iraq is for the Iraqis to be able and capable of defending their democracy against terrorists," Bush said yesterday during a visit with Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder of Germany. ''Parallel with the security track is a political track. And the political track made progress this year when 8 million people went to the polls and voted."

But with public support for the mission dropping sharply, defenders as well as critics of the war say that Bush, in his speech tonight at Fort Bragg, N.C., has to explain the situation clearly to the American people and give a sense of how and when it will end.

''I think if he wants to stay the course, he's going to have to level with the American people about the real situation. This happy talk isn't working anymore," said Lawrence Korb, a Pentagon official during the Reagan administration who is now with the left-leaning Center for American Progress.

Danielle Pletka, a foreign affairs specialist with the Heritage Foundation, said Bush ''has allowed this to be dealt with in a scattershot way, very much on the surface, and the American people need more than that."

''The American people fundamentally want to do something good, but they want to be led. They want to hear every week what's happening, why it is happening, and why it is the right thing for us," she said.

McClellan said Bush would discuss a ''two-track strategy" of military and political efforts to achieve a secure and independent Iraq. Bush also will talk about his plans to train more Iraqi troops and security forces so that they can operate without US help, McClellan said.

Senate minority leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat who backed the use of force in Iraq, said of Bush yesterday: ''It's very important that he let the American people know what his plans for victory are. I hope it's substance, not fluff."

While the administration has repeatedly insisted that the situation in Iraq is not as bleak as it appears on the news, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and his generals have recently struck a decidedly more realistic tone than in the past about the security situation.

Pentagon brass have refrained from predicting when large numbers of US troops can return home and have ceased talk of complete victory over insurgents.

Rumsfeld said Sunday that the insurgency could go on for a dozen years longer. He has said the US goal is to prepare the Iraqi forces to keep the insurgents in check so that they would not prevent Iraq from advancing economically and politically.

''Success for the coalition should not be defined as domestic tranquility in Iraq," Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon yesterday. ''Other democracies have had to contend with terrorism and insurgencies for a number of years, but they've been able to function and eventually succeed."

General George Casey, one of Rumsfeld's top field commanders, acknowledged that ''there are long-term developmental challenges and much to be done. . . . Iraq's steady progress will be contested."

But overall, the Pentagon has sent a strong message that the United States should not weaken in its resolve. Reviving a standard administration argument for staying the course in Iraq, Rumsfeld and McClellan yesterday invoked the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

''What's taking place in Iraq is a part of this global struggle between moderate Muslims and between extremists -- violent extremists," Rumsfeld said. ''It is hard, I understand, for people to connect all of the pieces, but the reality is we're an awful lot better off fighting against the extremists and the terrorists in other parts of the world than having to do it here at home."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 09:54 am
http://img238.echo.cx/img238/6974/062805platforms4hj.gif
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:04 am
lol, notice that one of the major legs of yer platform is 'social security reform.'

Looking a little shaky there, hehe

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:14 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Nimh writes
Quote:
That part I'd gotten. What I missed, apparently, was the small print about how the status of the thread meant that conservative participants get to post snide putdowns to liberal posters, but the thread's status will be evoked when liberals respond with snide posts of their own.


Nobody has complained about on topic posts, snide or otherwise, from liberal posters. What is rude and offensive are those who hijack the thread with their own venomous bigotry and continue to do so when asked politely to desist by the thread's author. As there are plenty of threads that invite their diatribes, I can only conclude that their motive in this thread is to be as rude and offensive as possible.

But like Tico, I don't have to read the posts and can pass right on by.


Isn't this the oddest thing? Must I really go collect similar posts from conservative posters on similar threads started by the liberals.....especially right after the election when feelings were especially tender? It wouldn't take much time and would fill many pages of this thread.........
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:17 am
Can't wait for the speech of the Prez tonight.......the language of puppets, spellbinding!

I hear his live audience will be small........I wonder why. I wonder also if our Jeff Gannon or whatever his name is will be there tonight. Rhetorical questions all, I know.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:49 am
Lola wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
Nimh writes
Quote:
That part I'd gotten. What I missed, apparently, was the small print about how the status of the thread meant that conservative participants get to post snide putdowns to liberal posters, but the thread's status will be evoked when liberals respond with snide posts of their own.


Nobody has complained about on topic posts, snide or otherwise, from liberal posters. What is rude and offensive are those who hijack the thread with their own venomous bigotry and continue to do so when asked politely to desist by the thread's author. As there are plenty of threads that invite their diatribes, I can only conclude that their motive in this thread is to be as rude and offensive as possible.

But like Tico, I don't have to read the posts and can pass right on by.


Isn't this the oddest thing? Must I really go collect similar posts from conservative posters on similar threads started by the liberals.....especially right after the election when feelings were especially tender? It wouldn't take much time and would fill many pages of this thread.........


Please do, Lola. Pay particular attention to my posts if you'd like.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:50 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
lol, notice that one of the major legs of yer platform is 'social security reform.'

Looking a little shaky there, hehe

Cycloptichorn


Shaky, perhaps. But at least it's there.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:54 am
Lola writes
Quote:
Isn't this the oddest thing? Must I really go collect similar posts from conservative posters on similar threads started by the liberals.....especially right after the election when feelings were especially tender? It wouldn't take much time and would fill many pages of this thread.........


By all means, if on the threads started specifically for liberal gnashing and weeping or liberal triumphs you can find intentional hijacking and/or inappropriate posts by conservatives, bring it on. As noted some pages back on this thread, Nimh already tried and admitted he didn't find much. In fact if you can find any thread on a liberal theme that was intentionally hijacked by the conservatives, I think we should take our lumps.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 10:58 am
I wouldn't go so far as to say there weren't "any," but requests to "cease and desist" as it were, were eventually complied with, and fairly quickly as I recall ... and I specifically requested that such requests be honored.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 12:19 pm
Not only will the live audience for Bush's speech be small, but they have had to go through background and security checks to make sure he isn't boooed during his puppet speech. As a matter of fact, the audience will also be puppets.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 12:25 pm
They Still Blame America First

DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE A DEATH wish. It just seems that way. What they actually have is a habit of falling into the national security trap. They did it in 1972. They did it in 1984. They did it in 1994. They did it in 2002. And they're doing it again this year as they prepare for the 2006 midterm elections, in which they hope to produce a breakthrough as sweeping and decisive as Republicans achieved in 1994.

The national security trap is simple. When faced with a choice between supporting or criticizing the use of military force along with a strong national security policy, Democrats often side with the critics. Which is how they fall into the trap, which leads to electoral defeat. When they back a vigorous defense of America's national security, however, the opposite happens. They usually win. Even when Democrats merely neutralize the national security issue--this happened in 1996 and 1998--or the issue is peripheral, they stand a good chance of winning.

At the moment, Democrats are convinced the country has turned against the war in Iraq. So House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi is quite comfortable declaring the war a "grotesque mistake" and boasting that she has thought so from the start. Senator Edward Kennedy felt confident enough last week to inform American generals home from Iraq that the war is an "intractable quagmire." This prompted a sharp rebuke from General George Casey, the top commander in Iraq. "You have an insurgency with no vision, no base, limited popular support,

an elected government, committed Iraqis to the democratic process, and you have Iraqi security forces that are fighting and dying for their country every day," Casey said. "Senator, that is not a quagmire."

Kennedy lost that exchange. And Democrats did no better on a related issue, the treatment of terrorists imprisoned at Guantanamo Bay. Senate Democratic whip Dick Durbin was forced to apologize for likening the treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay to that of the Soviet gulag, Hitler's death camps, and the Cambodian killing fields. What was striking was the matter-of-fact manner in which Durbin drew the parallel in the first place. He seemed to be oblivious to the possibility he might be seen as worrying more about the detainees than about America's national security.

Democrats haven't learned the lesson on national security from elections over the past 30-plus years. In 1972, Democrats thought the public had turned strongly against the war in Vietnam. So they nominated a fervent antiwar candidate, George McGovern. He lost in a landslide to incumbent Richard Nixon. Granted, McGovern's stance on national security wasn't the only factor in his loss, but it played a part. In 1980, Ronald Reagan ousted Jimmy Carter at least partly because he took a tougher position toward the Soviet Union and Iran. Four years later, Democratic candidates spent the primaries arguing over who had endorsed the nuclear freeze first. Reagan won reelection easily.

In 1988, the elder George Bush won after Democrat Michael Dukakis undermined his own credibility as a potential commander in chief by riding in a tank wearing silly-looking headgear. But in 1992, things were different. Bill Clinton and Al Gore avoided the national security trap. Clinton was hawkish toward China (later he mellowed) and Gore had voted for the Gulf war as a senator in 1991. They won. In 1994, after Clinton had responded weakly in Somalia and Haiti, Republicans captured the Senate and the House. Clinton responded strongly in Bosnia in 1995 and won reelection in 1996 and Democrats picked up a few House seats in 1998. In 2000, national security was a secondary issue and Al Gore won the popular vote and Democrats gained 5 Senate seats.

In 2002, Democrats voted 11 times against the creation of a Homeland Security Department, insisting the wishes of federal employee unions be accommodated first. They were pilloried by Republicans, who gained congressional seats. Finally, in 2004, Democrats concluded a majority of voters were anti-Iraq. John Kerry acted accordingly, voting against funds to continue the war. And Democrats spent much of the year attacking Bush also over the conduct of the war on terror. They fell in the trap. Bush was reelected in large part because voters trusted him more than Kerry to keep the country secure.

Democrats are optimistic about the 2006 election and with some reason. The country is in a sour mood. The public may have grown tired of Bush. Democrats believe they can sell the idea Republicans are abusing their power in Congress. But Democrats can't win if they're caught in the national security trap. In an era in which America is threatened by terrorists, voters are unlikely to abandon a party that's muscular on national security for a party that isn't.

source
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 01:47 pm
Talk about "falling into a trap," what do the neocons call Iraq?
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 01:49 pm
Recent statement by Cheney, "the insurgency is in its last throes." Rummy, "it can take up to 12 years."
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 03:17 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not only will the live audience for Bush's speech be small, but they have had to go through background and security checks to make sure he isn't boooed during his puppet speech. As a matter of fact, the audience will also be puppets.


His live audience will be U.S. military. We know what you think of them.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 03:22 pm
That's a horrible thing to say about our men and women in service!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 03:29 pm
Just as there is guilt by association, there is favorability by association, and Bush will take full advantage of that, something like:
"If you have a problem with me, you also have a problem with these gentlemen behind me."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 04:03 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Just as there is guilt by association, there is favorability by association, and Bush will take full advantage of that, something like:
"If you have a problem with me, you also have a problem with these gentlemen behind me."


Ooooh ... that's a good line.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 04:04 pm
Ticomaya wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not only will the live audience for Bush's speech be small, but they have had to go through background and security checks to make sure he isn't boooed during his puppet speech. As a matter of fact, the audience will also be puppets.


His live audience will be U.S. military. We know what you think of them.


"The last refuge of the scoundrel"

Freedom of speech seems to be lost among the propaganda. Who is running the show for Bush, Leni Riefenstahl?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 04:06 pm
Ticomaya wrote:


Ooooh ... that's a good line.


Yes, that's how mass manioulation worked here in Germany, for 1,000 years ... ehem 32 years, I mean. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jun, 2005 04:15 pm
McTag wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Not only will the live audience for Bush's speech be small, but they have had to go through background and security checks to make sure he isn't boooed during his puppet speech. As a matter of fact, the audience will also be puppets.


His live audience will be U.S. military. We know what you think of them.


"The last refuge of the scoundrel"

Freedom of speech seems to be lost among the propaganda. Who is running the show for Bush, Leni Riefenstahl?


Walter Hinteler wrote:
Yes, that's how mass manioulation worked here in Germany, for 1,000 years ... ehem 32 years, I mean. :wink:


Rolling Eyes

If "patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel," what are constant references to Hitler?
0 Replies
 
 

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