Bush supporters' aftermath thread

"...broken the backs of the insurgents..." If those soldiers on the front line thinks that, who are we to argue just because more of them are getting killed by the insurgents?

Military Fatalities: By Time Period News

Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
4..... 305. 3... 14...... 322 2.18 148
3.... 579. 26. 27...... 632 2.93 216
2..... 718. 27. 58...... 803 1.89 424
1..... 140. 33.. 0....... 173 4.02 43
Total 1742 89. 99..... 1930 2.32 831

To View Period Details Click The Period Number
Time Periods Defined
2005: Iraqi Police and Guardsmen Deaths
Latest Coalition Fatality: Jun 27, 2005
Coalition Fatalities By Location Across Time


Military Fatalities: By Month
Period US UK Other* Total Avg Days
6-2005 75 0 3 78 2.89 27
5-2005 80 2 6 88 2.84 31
4-2005 52 0 0 52 1.73 30
3-2005 36 1 3 40 1.29 31
2-2005 58 0 2 60 2.14 28
1-2005 107 10 10 127 4.1 31
12-2004 72 2 3 77 2.48 31
11-2004 137 4 0 141 4.7 30
10-2004 63 2 2 67 2.16 31
9-2004 80 3 4 87 2.9 30
8-2004 66 4 5 75 2.42 31
7-2004 54 1 3 58 1.87 31
6-2004 42 1 7 50 1.67 30
5-2004 80 0 4 84 2.71 31
4-2004 135 0 5 140 4.67 30
3-2004 52 0 0 52 1.68 31
2-2004 20 1 2 23 0.79 29
1-2004 47 5 0 52 1.68 31
12-2003 40 0 8 48 1.55 31
11-2003 82 1 27 110 3.67 30
10-2003 44 1 2 47 1.52 31
9-2003 31 1 1 33 1.1 30
8-2003 35 6 2 43 1.39 31
7-2003 48 1 0 49 1.58 31
6-2003 30 6 0 36 1.2 30
5-2003 37 4 0 41 1.32 31
4-2003 74 6 0 80 2.67 30
3-2003 65 27 0 92 7.67 12
Total 1742 89 99 1930 2.32 831

Jeez, Fox



Fallujah did nothing to help us. Nothing. And you want to talk about how a vastly superiour, highly trained, well-armored force with artillery and air support kicked the crap out of a thousand or so insurgents who had none of that, and call that a 'herculean job?' Are you crazy? Our troops had the upper hand in every way.

The Insurgency is not diminished and many, many innocents were killed, needlessly. Whole neighborhoods (like the one you live in, you realize) were destroyed. And you sit here and bitch about negative reporting.

I don't think you understand how a guerrilla war works at all. Your posted article is clearly out of date in that the insurgency obviously has not had its back broken and the capture of Zarqawi has not happened, the attacks continue apace and we still cannot manage to keep the power and water on, let alone the oil pumping.

I just don't understand it

Cycloptichorn

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume the war goes on for another 12 years. Here's the anticipated casualty number for the 12 years assuming 2 per day is the average killed. 8,760 more of our parents, sons and daughters lost. Is this worth it? This doesn't include the physically and mentally injured which will number in the tens of thousands.

Just for the sake of argument, let's assume the war goes on for another 12 years. Here's the anticipated casualty number for the 12 years assuming 2 per day is the average killed. 8,760 more of our parents, sons and daughters lost. Is this worth it? This doesn't include the physically and mentally injured which will number in the tens of thousands.

Cyclop, you've been doing a lot better reasoning out arguments lately and I respect your opinion. I think you are dead wrong. Everybody I know who is over there or who has been over there, and that is a lot of folks, think you are dead wrong including the four guys I know who were in Fallujah. The comments were made about nothing but Fallujah. The back of the insurgency in Fallujah was broken and Fallujah was a success. More people are being killed in Dallas or Detroit or Kansas City these days than are being killed in Fallujah.

Is Iraq still a dangerous place. Of course it is. Are there people still determined to lay it all on the line to be sure there is no democracy in Iraq or anywhere else in the Middle East. Of course there are. Are the successful efforts to beat back the insurgency and further Iraq's chance to be a democracy outweighing the negatives? I believe they are.

I think the best way to bring this whole thing to a speedier end with the best possible outcome is to recognize that, let the troops know how proud of them we are and how much we appreciate their sacrifices and their successes, and the American people are behind them 100%. Anything less makes their job a whole lot harder and puts them at much higher risk.

And it is the media who is shaping the opinions of the nay sayers and it is the media who is communicating that opinion to the troops. I think it is wrong. And I will continue to speak out for honest reporting of ALL the news as long as I can and need to do that.

A Spanish prosecutor Monday called for legal rather than military means of fighting the war on terror during closing arguments in the trial of three men suspected of aiding the 9/11 attacks.
Apparently referring to US strategy in Afghanistan and Iraq, he said "We don't need wars. We don't need detention camps, but rather this kind of trial that strengthens the rule of law" and called for "exemplary sentences" against the accused - jail terms in excess of 74,000 years for Imad Yarkas, Driss Chebli, and Ghasoub al Abrash Ghalyoun, on charges that they helped prepare and plan the attacks. Chebli is also charged in connection with the Madrid train bombings.

Spanish prosecutor seeks 'exemplary sentence' in closing arguments at al-Qaida trial

With all due respect to the Spanish, their idea is terrific. How do they propose bringing all the bad guys to trial, however, if somebody doesn't go get them? And somehow I don't think they'll just turn themselves in.

Casualties of Fallujah
Some Iraqi children, unable to flee the city with their families before the U.S. assault, are left with serious injuries.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
By Rory McCarthy and Osama Mansour

Nov. 17, 2004 | BAGHDAD --

Evidence began to emerge Tuesday of civilians, including children, who were seriously injured in the U.S. assault on the Iraqi city of Fallujah. As American troops sought to consolidate their control over the city, patients in a hospital in Baghdad described how they had been hurt during U.S. bombing raids before the ground assault began last week.


There has been limited independent information from inside Fallujah because of the intense fighting and the security cordon around the city. Tens of thousands of residents fled before the fight began, but others stayed behind. The Iraqi government insisted Tuesday night that there was no humanitarian crisis in the city and no civilians had been killed.

More Than 200 U.S. Fallujah Casualties Reported
U.S. Troops Launch Second Phase Of Assault In Insurgents

POSTED: 11:06 am EST November 11, 2004
UPDATED: 11:14 am EST November 11, 2004

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq -- U.S. soldiers and Marines launched a large attack Thursday into the southern half of Fallujah, where insurgents still holding, opening a second phase in the offensive, U.S. officials said.


The news follows reports that more than 200 U.S. soldiers have been seriously hurt in the offensive and flown to Landstuhl Medical Center in Germany.

The Center is usually used to treat severely wounded troops, but there are no official casualty figures yet from the military about the battle for Fallujah.

Two planes carrying about 90 wounded Marines and soldiers were due in from Iraq today. Those are troops too seriously injured to be treated at U.S military hospitals in Iraq.

A spokeswoman says doctors there are "very busy."

The large number of wounded sent to Germany suggests that fighting may be more intense - at least in some areas - than the military had initially indicated.

The new assault began around sundown and followed three days of fighting in the northern districts.

U.S. troops launched the first major assault against Fallujah late Monday, pushing into northern districts until they reached the main east-west highway that bisects the city.

Fighting has been underway since then to clear pockets of resistance from northern areas, where insurgent positions were believed the strongest.

Commanders say their troops have cordoned off the entire city to prevent fighters from escaping.

Copyright 2004 by NBC10.com The Associated Press contributed to this report. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed

A city lies in ruins, along with the lives of the wretched survivors
By Michael Georgy in Fallujah and Kim Sengupta
15 November 2004


After six days of intense combat against the Fallujah insurgents, US warplanes, tanks and mortars have left a shattered landscape of gutted buildings, crushed cars and charred bodies.

Fox


Didn't you read the article that, I believe, WH posted?

Fallujah is a tightly-controlled, armed city full of American soldiers. Yes, it has been pacified, at a high cost.

But other than the fact that some of the Insurgents were there, there isn't a lot of strategic significance in the taking of Fallujah. It certainly killed many innocents as well as Insurgents, and it has ruined the lives of thousands and thousands more Iraqis. How many of them will BECOME Insurgents now? If it is only 1 or 2% that still dwarfs the number that we captured or killed there.

Pardon me if I don't take the word of some soldiers who fought in Fallujah as an accurate portrayal of how the war is going. Did you think they were going to come back and talk about how this huge attack was inaffectual in curbing the insurgency in the slightest? No, of course not; I wouldn't either if I had been there fighting. Did you think they would talk about all the civilian casualties? No, I wouldn't either if I had been there fighting.

I don't blame the soldiers for trying to put the best face on things possible, but some sense has to be used when judging the effects of a situation. Front-line soldiers, while courageous and admirable, are hardly strategists who understand the complex political and social systems of Iraq.

Neither are you and I, for that matter. All we can go by are statistics such as bombing deaths, American deaths, insurgent deaths, oil water and food successes/failures, and Iraqi Army training progress. We have failed miserably in all these categories except for American deaths; as the insurgents figured out that they could hit IA targets much much easier, they shifted to the more effective tactics. Hard to blame them, I wouldn't want to go up against US soldiers either....

It doesn't matter in the slightest that we pacified Fallujah; the cost was tremendous and the insurgency of Iraq as a whole was undiminished. I know that the overall theory would be to start doing the same to every town until they have nowhere to hide left, but the REALITY of the situation is that we're about 200k soldiers too few over there to effectively do that. And how many neighborhoods would we have to destroy?

Do we have to destroy Iraq in order to save it?

Cycloptichorn

We will destroy towns in Iraq, then rebuild them to destory them again and again and again..... Some success, heh?

Do you guys remember what Fallujah was like before we had had enough? They are lucky we didn't just MOAB the entire city.

You have to forgive them because they're liberals McG. They think you can conduct a war without killing anybody or breaking anything. Or worse, they think any people are better off without a war no matter how bad it was before.

Yeah, those lucky Fallujahns, boy, they sure got off easy, didn't they! That city of hundreds of thousands, which had a few thousand Insurgents in it, should have been levelled to the ground.

Don't worry about addressing any of my points, though; it's okay. Just keep telling yourself that everything is going great, and then get ready to turn up the moral indignance when things turn out to not be going so great.

Cycloptichorn

Your points are meaningless and trite. You do nothing but complain about Bush and the war and how awful it is. You are a stuck record that keeps repeating the Moveon mantra and it gets old.

Fallujha was a bastion for insurgent activity. Every headline of the time discussed the insurgent activity in Fallujha. Now they don't. Fallujha no longer harbors insurgents. Our forces perform far above any military force before, even with both hands tied behind it's back as it is.

I sometimes wish the US WAS an occupying force and that we could act without regard to the innocent Iraqi's. This would be over and our boys would be home by now if they could. Iraq would be a shiny exxon filling station.

Instead, we care about freeing the Iraqi's and granting them the same freedoms we hold dear. We sacrifice our soldiers defending freedom from the extremist Islamic poison that has the middle east in it's grasp. I hope that someday the Iraqi people realize they are killing themselves by not fighting the insurgency and the moderate people of the region rise up against the intolerant a-holes killing their neighbors and their children.

Any idiot with a keyboard can hide behind their monitors and criticize the US for it's mission. It's easy to do.

And any idiot can blindly insist that All is well, nothing to look at here, everybody go home.



Bull
Sh*t

You are out of your mind. These are excuses that have been made up for our imperialistic ways.

Cycloptichorn

Yeah, it's sittin' behind your monitor, waving the flag and ridiculin' those damn liberals like McG does all day thats real hard!

You're right of course. When you see someone doing that, feel free to call them an idiot.



Why are you so afraid of the truth? I pity you for having to go through your existance with so much hostility and blind rage.