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Bush supporters' aftermath thread

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 06:21 am
HofT wrote:
Hi Walter - where's your latest signature line from?


It's from the Baltimore Grotto, a caving society: The motto was created about 1970, by William (Bill) Devereaux and others.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:03 am
Tks Walter - do you share my idea that the author of "Zeit und..." would disapprove?!
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:09 am
nimh wrote:
I think Cyclo is way off with his assertion about rightwing blogs almost never featuring a reply option, though. I've seen lots of rightwing blogs with reply/comment options.

Since I went all nimhing about Fishin's post, I suppose I should do the nimh thing about this one as well.

The TTLB Blogosphere Ecosystem is a system that keeps track of the popularity of blogs. It does so by measuring how many other blogs link back to a certain blog. The blogs are then cutely categorised as beings of some sort - from "Playful Primates" to "Insignificant Microbes".

Browsing through the two top categories (over 1500 links) it's easy to find plenty of conservative blogs thats got a comment function installed: for example little green footballs, Outside the Beltway, Pro-Life Blogs, the evangelical outpost, Scrappleface and Blogs for Bush.

Just to neatly tie things together in this thread by the way, perusing these blogs will have you come across a conspicuous frequency of the abbreviation "MSM", although it never references the (per Wikipedia) widely used connotation of "mechanically separated meat".
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:26 am
HofT wrote:
Tks Walter - do you share my idea that the author of "Zeit und..." would disapprove?!


Well, I'm not sooo well read to come to an own opinion and answer that question :wink:

Quote:
The motto came out of the period when we all had carbide lights (only the limeys and frogs used wussy electric lights), wrote our NSS # on cave walls when we first got it, collected critters and formations for grotto collections (museums and schools), and didn't think much about what our boots and bolts were doing. That time ('67 through early 70's) was a beginning of a change. Conservation, ecology, cave protection, society ownership of caves, wilderness, and so on were all new ideas that gained ground. The Kill, Leave, Take motto was the first of its kind to step out from the pack.
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HofT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 07:53 am
Walter - you are much better read than someone who persists in fonetik speling like "keltic" for "Celtic" to take just one example at random, even after the error has been explained to him/her/it. As someone said before me, it's not what you don't know, it's what you know that just ain't so!
<G>
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:17 am
Nimh
Quote:
I think Cyclo is way off with his assertion about rightwing blogs almost never featuring a reply option, though. I've seen lots of rightwing blogs with reply/comment options.


Well, here's the thing. There are plenty of them with comments. Just very few popular ones with comments.

Start off by looking at www.blogads.com/order . Of the top 20 or so conservative blogs that are listed there (and some get millions of hits per day) less than half allow comments.

NONE of them are 'community' sites, IE, sites with not just room for comments but room for diaries, discussion, etc.

Now, you wouldn't think that this is a big deal, except for the fact that in 2003, daily hits for Right-wing blogs far exceeded those of Left-wing blogs; at a rate of almost two to one. Today, Left-wing blogs membership has more than doubled Right-wingers. That's a hell of a turnaround in just a few short years.

What accounts for this turnaround? There are a lot of different factors that could.

I went looking for some research on this and found this:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/6/12/17357/3049

Quote:
By comparison, right-wing blogs have pretty much only one means of finding a new voice in the blogosphere: when someone starts a new blog. The inability to operate within a community must be the primary reason behind the large number of conservative blogs in the second, third and fourth quintiles of the Blogads traffic rankings. In fact, of these 120 blogs, 77 of them are openly conservative / libertarian. There are swarms of new conservative voices looking to breakout in the right-wing blogosphere, but they are not even allowed to comment, much less post a diary and gain a following, on the high traffic conservative blogs. Instead, without any fanfare, they are forced to start their own blogs. However, because of the top-down nature of right-wing blogs, new conservative blogs remain almost entirely dependent upon the untouchable high traffic blogs for visitors. In short, the anti-community nature of right-wing blogs has resulted in a stagnant aristocracy within the conservative blogosphere that prevents the emergence of new voices and, as a result, new reasons for people to visit conservative blogs.


There is a lot in there also about how Liberal blogs are intended to influence other libs, and Conservative blogs are intended to influence the media through mass numbers. Fascinating stuff.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:40 am
Well Cyclop, it is interesting that you would post a piece written by a Blogger writing on one of the most liberal, anti-conservative anything, blogs as your evidence re conservative blogs. You will understand if I don't find that compelling without some backup from a more objective source.

Doing some very quick and cursory analysis on my own, the number of hits on those conservative blogs you mention may be akin to conservative talk radio which is far more popular and far more successful than liberal talk radio.

I also have no problem with a site that does not have comments enabled. Those running sites with comments have to monitor them constantly to weed out illegal posting of copyrighted material, libelous comments, etc. else such comments would be saturated with the idiots and jerks posting the most offensive material imaginable.

Sites like A2K are fun and the efforts of those who have the time and fortitude to keep them running (and cleaned up) are much appreciated. But I also appreciate those sites that gather and provide interesting and useful information and do not feel they are in any way obligated to allow comments to be posted. They all provide a way for readers to contact them if you feel the inclination to do so.

I don't know if there are more conservative sites than liberal sites, but the liberal sites I have vistied are generally angry and have little more to offer than just bashing of the right. Which is probably why the conservative sites are getting a lot of hits.

I can't help it if the conservatives are able to provide more interesting and useful information. Smile
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:44 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Well, here's the thing. There are plenty of them with comments. Just very few popular ones with comments.

Hm, I thought I had pointed out that I'd selected my examples from the blogs that ranked in the very top two categories of the "TTLB Blogosphere Ecosystem"...

"little green footballs", for example, with comments function, gets 77,328 visits/day (visits, not hits) - more than either Power Line or Michelle Malkin, the examples you brought earlier. And what about Captain's Quarters or Polipundit? Both conservative blogs with comments function - and high-traffic enough to get more visitors than MyDD, the top liberal blogger you quote claiming that "swarms of new conservative voices [are] not even allowed to comment on the high traffic conservative blogs". Oops.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:49 am
Quote:
I don't know if there are more conservative sites than liberal sites, but the liberal sites I have vistied are generally angry and have little more to offer than just bashing of the right. Which is probably why the conservative sites are getting a lot of hits.


This is why I don't rely on you for information on Liberals, lol

You say 'the conservative sites are getting a lot of hits,' but this directly contradicts the evidence that is found at www.blogads.com/order which states that the numbers of readers for Liberal sites overall is actually far higher. And that this is a relatively recent change (since 2003).

If your ideology even keeps you from reading a piece at mydd then do your own research on the number of page hits and historical numbers of page hits. You will come up with the same numbers but be robbed of a few short hours of your life.

There are more Conservative sites than Liberal sites when it comes to blogs; far more. Part of the nature of why this is is explained in my link.

For those of you who aren't afraid to read something written by a liberal, check out the earlier articles in the series:

Top-Down Right-Wing Blogosphere Growing Powerful

Partisan Democrat Blogs Growing Far more influential than "independent" right-wing blogs

From the first article:

Quote:
The lower stickiness of top right-wing sites, especially Instapundit, can lead to a complete domination of the right-wing blogosphere by the "one big story" if the top bloggers are all pushing one story. Glenn Reynolds in particular, who does not have comments or special pages and who rarely comments on a subject beyond "xxx has the goods on this one," or "indeed," can send the traffic of any blog he links skyrocketing to a degree no left-wing blog can even come close to matching (and he links other blogs a lot). Right-wing blog traffic, and the articles people tend to read on any individual right-wing blog, has a remarkable correlation to the interests of the top-right wing bloggers, and Glenn Reynolds in particular. That is why, in the title of this article, I called the right-wing blogosphere a top-down operation.


Cycloptichorn
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:52 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I don't know if there are more conservative sites than liberal sites, but the liberal sites I have vistied are generally angry and have little more to offer than just bashing of the right. Which is probably why the conservative sites are getting a lot of hits.

I can't help it if the conservatives are able to provide more interesting and useful information. Smile

Oy, kids. Liberals, conservatives, I dont care but can all of you stick to the facts, please?

No, the traffic does not prove that "the conservatives are able to provide more interesting and useful information", because no, conservative blogs are not necessarily getting more hits than liberal ones. In the TTLB Ecosystem, its the Daily Kos that ranks second when it comes to links and first when it comes to traffic. In the blog ranking Cyclo linked in, the Daily Kos ranks second, behind a celebrity/gossip blog. According to your logic, Fox, this evidence that the Daily Kos "is getting a lot of hits" must prove that it is "able to provide more interesting and useful information". Well, personally, I'm no fan.

Tssk. Cant American lefties and righties have a reasoned, fact-based debate like us civilized Old Europe-ites? Mr. Green
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 09:56 am
No, Cyclop, YOU said conservative sites are getting a lot of hits. I was just going with your observation.

Quote:
Start off by looking at www.blogads.com/order . Of the top 20 or so conservative blogs that are listed there (and some get millions of hits per day) less than half allow comments.


I don't know how many hits any site gets in a day, and that is not particularly important to me. I do know I am far more likely to find verifiable useful information on a conservative site than I am likely to find verifiable useful nfomration on a liberal site. The liberal sites seem to be mostly forums for bashing the United States, George Bush, anything to do with the military, anything to do with conservative beliefs or values, etc. You find very little there outlining liberal ideals or values and providing a rationale for them. Which is why the liberal sites, at least to me, are pretty boring.

I'm sure they are fascinating to those who have no more interest in politics, ideas, or values than to accuse or criticze something or somebody on the right.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:07 am
<sighs>

I think, with that last post of Fox's, we're firmly out of the realm of the rational now here ... (if we weren't already a long time ago) ... beam, eye, mote ... never mind.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:09 am
Shrug. I'm not trying to denigrate Conservative blogs, merely to point out that the open nature of Liberal ones has lead to a huge increase in traffic, to the point where they recieve far more hits in the upper end cases.

I went to yer link, Nimh, and I believe that the ranking based upon how many OTHER sites link to your site is unfairly biased towards Conservatives, especially when you look at the nature of their sites and how they handle comments/linking.

For example, I can visit, say, Booman Tribune and not only read what the resident pundits have to say, but individual diaries and stories from hundreds if not thousands of their members. This leads to far less external linking as a majority of information instead begins to be handled in-house.

if you look at the stats on the site you listed to as a ranking of daily hits, and not of how many sites link to it, the results are different:

http://www.truthlaidbear.com/TrafficRanking.php

The top five Conservative blogs, in terms of daily hits, are Instapundit, Little Green Footballs, Powerline, Michelle Malkin, and Andrew Sullivan. Out of those 5, only LGF allows comments.

Therefore it is quite obvious that the highest-ranked blogs, in terms of daily hits, on the conservative end do not allow comments and certainly don't diares, for the most part.

An example of how much the left-wing blogs have pulled ahead?

Combined totals of the above-mentioned blogs for daily visits:

372,107 visits daily.

Total number of daily visits for Dailykos ALONE:

428,619

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:10 am
Well, Nimh, I would be really happy to be referred to liberal Blogs that do provide a rationale or objective support for the liberal point of view. Do you know of any? I can pont you to several considered 'conservative' who do that. I would remind you that this is the "Bush supporters' thread, and therefore is the logical forum for conservative members to stand up for conservatism here.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:11 am
Gorblimey, Foxfyre.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:12 am
If you had bothered to read carefully Fox you would see that while yes, Conservative sites do get a lot of hits, Liberal sites garner far, far more these days.

Reading

Comprehension

You might understand the Liberal sites better if you actually attempted to read what was there.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:15 am
Provide links Cyclop. Give me links to liberal sites that are providing support for their point of view that is more substantial than grousing about how wrong conservatisms or the conservative point of view is. I am deadly serious here as I am more than interested in getting both sides of a lot of these issues.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:18 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I went to yer link, Nimh, and I believe that the ranking based upon how many OTHER sites link to your site is unfairly biased towards Conservatives, especially when you look at the nature of their sites and how they handle comments/linking.

[..] if you look at the stats on the site you listed to as a ranking of daily hits, and not of how many sites link to it, the results are different:

I did go there, thats how I got the number of visits for little green footballs.

Thats also how I found out that there are several conservative blogs with comment functions that are more high-traffic than, for example, MyDD. Captain's Quarters, Polipundit. More still a little further down.

And I'll remind you of the assertion you're defending here:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Out of the top right-wing blogs, only ONE allows for comments and that's Redstate.org. That's pretty much it.

Can you name 10 Conservative ones that [allow comments]? 5? I doubt it.

here's the thing. There are [..] very few popular ones with comments.

Time for some self-correction, I'd say. (Do you folks ever do that, self-correction?)
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:22 am
Gorblimey is closed for renovations, Walter. I do not consider Andrew Sullivan to be a conservative site--way too much mix there--maybe libertarian. I do visit there regularly, however, as he does excellent research.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2005 10:23 am
Fox, perhaps the problem you're having there stems from what amounts to discussion and examination of what serve as as issues according to the opposing ideologic mindsets. What some folks take to be issues have very little substance - witness the current digression on this thread.
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